Battle of the Collimators

[Posted on several fora]

I just finished up a test I have been meaning to do for a while.
Using my proprietary scientific method, I compared the Orion
collimation cap, Orion Cheshire/sight tube combo, Orion standard
lasermate, Kendrick 2" laser, barlowed laser, Catseye 2" Black Cat
cheshire and Catseye 2" Infinity autocollimator. Oh yeah, I tried
out my Mk1-Mod0 eyeball as well. The results kinda surprised me a
bit.

Here are the contenders:

http://www.tomhole.com/Slide1.JPG

I will write up an article for Astromart and Cloudy Nights, but
here's a summary:

The best for primary tilt adjustment? Gosh darn it if that cheapo
collimating cap that Orion provides didn't work as well as anything.
It is precise and accurate. It wasn't as good at the secondary tilt,
but good enough, I think (secondary tilt is not nearly as critical
as primary tilt). All of the methods were accurate and precise
enough that I would use them on my Starmaster. The lasers were prone
to wobble, but careful insertion lead to repeatable and accurate
results. Proper laser collimation is required.

The best for secondary tilt? The Catseye Infinity autocollimator,
but the lasers did almost as well and, IMHO, certainly as well as
(or better than) required. The collimation cap and cheshire were not
as accurate (or precise), but probably good enough. I found the cheshire a
bit difficult to use for precise secondary tilt adjustment. The collimation
cap was ok, but you had to judge the area around the primary and that was
not as precise.

The Mk1-Mod0 eyeball was good enough to get you close on the
secondary and primary, but not for critical observing. Just too
sensitive to eye placement.

What would I get? A cheapo laser for the secondary tilt and an Orion
collimating cap for the primary tilt. Or just the collimation cap.
Eeeghads! I have over $400 worth of collimation tools and I'm
recommending a freebie (Orion doesn't even sell these things
seperately).

Actually, I recommend that you use whatever you like best. I like
the Black Cat for the primary and a laser+autocollimator for the
secondary. If you like the cap, feel free to use as it
works as well as anything else. If you like high tech lasers, they
work, too (make sure they are collimated, themselves). If you like
star collimation, well, I dunno about that as it's cloudy and I
couldn't try that out.

For those that care about such things, the truth data was the Black
Cat and Infinity. I have checked them against myriad star tests and
they have proven themselves to be right on. They are repeatable.

One note: I have a Catseye red triangle as a center spot for my
primary. IMHO, this is a much better type of center spot for
accurate collimation. Just easier to see very small deviations.
Here's a pic:

http://www.tomhole.com/red%20triangle.jpg

If you need a center spot, get one of these. The template that Jim
Fly sells with it is fantastic.

http://www.catseyecollimation.com/ceyeflr1.html (bottom of the page)

Anyway, surprising how well the simple stuff works.

Tom

"Tom Hole" wrote in news:NXeod.1850
$6m2.1458@trnddc04:

http://www.tomhole.com/Slide1.JPG

This is exactly my experience too. I use the Rigel Aline, which looks
similar to the Orion cap. I wrote an article for a Norwegian magazine about
it. An english version is on my webpage:
http://home.no.net/jonbent/Equipment...nchor-Ri-24855
Jon

Fundamentalist Reactionary collimators?



Jon wrote:

"Tom Hole" wrote in news:NXeod.1850
$6m2.1458@trnddc04:

http://www.tomhole.com/Slide1.JPG

This is exactly my experience too. I use the Rigel Aline, which looks
similar to the Orion cap. I wrote an article for a Norwegian magazine about
it. An english version is on my webpage:
http://home.no.net/jonbent/Equipment...nchor-Ri-24855
Jon

Did you give the good old 35mm film can(plastic) with holes drilled in it a
try? While I have others, I keep one of them on hand just incase.


--


The Forgotten
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/forgotten.htm
SIAR
www.starlords.org
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Car Fund Page Update
http://www.bishopcarfund.netfirms.com/

"Tom Hole" wrote in message
news:NXeod.1850$6m2.1458@trnddc04...
[Posted on several fora]

I just finished up a test I have been meaning to do for a while.
Using my proprietary scientific method, I compared the Orion
collimation cap, Orion Cheshire/sight tube combo, Orion standard
lasermate, Kendrick 2" laser, barlowed laser, Catseye 2" Black Cat
cheshire and Catseye 2" Infinity autocollimator. Oh yeah, I tried
out my Mk1-Mod0 eyeball as well. The results kinda surprised me a
bit.

Here are the contenders:

http://www.tomhole.com/Slide1.JPG

I will write up an article for Astromart and Cloudy Nights, but
here's a summary:

The best for primary tilt adjustment? Gosh darn it if that cheapo
collimating cap that Orion provides didn't work as well as anything.
It is precise and accurate. It wasn't as good at the secondary tilt,
but good enough, I think (secondary tilt is not nearly as critical
as primary tilt). All of the methods were accurate and precise
enough that I would use them on my Starmaster. The lasers were prone
to wobble, but careful insertion lead to repeatable and accurate
results. Proper laser collimation is required.

The best for secondary tilt? The Catseye Infinity autocollimator,
but the lasers did almost as well and, IMHO, certainly as well as
(or better than) required. The collimation cap and cheshire were not
as accurate (or precise), but probably good enough. I found the cheshire a
bit difficult to use for precise secondary tilt adjustment. The
collimation
cap was ok, but you had to judge the area around the primary and that was
not as precise.

The Mk1-Mod0 eyeball was good enough to get you close on the
secondary and primary, but not for critical observing. Just too
sensitive to eye placement.

What would I get? A cheapo laser for the secondary tilt and an Orion
collimating cap for the primary tilt. Or just the collimation cap.
Eeeghads! I have over $400 worth of collimation tools and I'm
recommending a freebie (Orion doesn't even sell these things
seperately).

Actually, I recommend that you use whatever you like best. I like
the Black Cat for the primary and a laser+autocollimator for the
secondary. If you like the cap, feel free to use as it
works as well as anything else. If you like high tech lasers, they
work, too (make sure they are collimated, themselves). If you like
star collimation, well, I dunno about that as it's cloudy and I
couldn't try that out.

For those that care about such things, the truth data was the Black
Cat and Infinity. I have checked them against myriad star tests and
they have proven themselves to be right on. They are repeatable.

One note: I have a Catseye red triangle as a center spot for my
primary. IMHO, this is a much better type of center spot for
accurate collimation. Just easier to see very small deviations.
Here's a pic:

http://www.tomhole.com/red%20triangle.jpg

If you need a center spot, get one of these. The template that Jim
Fly sells with it is fantastic.

http://www.catseyecollimation.com/ceyeflr1.html (bottom of the page)

Anyway, surprising how well the simple stuff works.

Tom




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I bought a laser collimator for my recently finished 12" homemade scope.
While waiting for the laser collimator to arrive, I found info about the
35 mm film canisters, so I made a couple of them (different designs). I
used those and I left the scope outside in the backyard so it would cool
down. I got up early (4 AM) to catch Saturn so I could complete my astronomy
class assignment. The views were great, I was able to track 7 or 8 moons that morning. The
next day my laser collimator arrived, and I was very dissappointed to find
out it was out of alignment. Once I got it aligned, I discovered that the
collimation on my scope was right on the money. I guess I'll sell the
laser collimator and buy me a barlow or something that I'll use more.


--
David Trevino

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, starlord wrote:

Did you give the good old 35mm film can(plastic) with holes drilled in it a
try? While I have others, I keep one of them on hand just incase.


--


The Forgotten
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/forgotten.htm
SIAR
www.starlords.org
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Car Fund Page Update
http://www.bishopcarfund.netfirms.com/

"Tom Hole" wrote in message
news:NXeod.1850$6m2.1458@trnddc04...
[Posted on several fora]

I just finished up a test I have been meaning to do for a while.
Using my proprietary scientific method, I compared the Orion
collimation cap, Orion Cheshire/sight tube combo, Orion standard
lasermate, Kendrick 2" laser, barlowed laser, Catseye 2" Black Cat
cheshire and Catseye 2" Infinity autocollimator. Oh yeah, I tried
out my Mk1-Mod0 eyeball as well. The results kinda surprised me a
bit.

Here are the contenders:

http://www.tomhole.com/Slide1.JPG

I will write up an article for Astromart and Cloudy Nights, but
here's a summary:

The best for primary tilt adjustment? Gosh darn it if that cheapo
collimating cap that Orion provides didn't work as well as anything.
It is precise and accurate. It wasn't as good at the secondary tilt,
but good enough, I think (secondary tilt is not nearly as critical
as primary tilt). All of the methods were accurate and precise
enough that I would use them on my Starmaster. The lasers were prone
to wobble, but careful insertion lead to repeatable and accurate
results. Proper laser collimation is required.

The best for secondary tilt? The Catseye Infinity autocollimator,
but the lasers did almost as well and, IMHO, certainly as well as
(or better than) required. The collimation cap and cheshire were not
as accurate (or precise), but probably good enough. I found the cheshire a
bit difficult to use for precise secondary tilt adjustment. The
collimation
cap was ok, but you had to judge the area around the primary and that was
not as precise.

The Mk1-Mod0 eyeball was good enough to get you close on the
secondary and primary, but not for critical observing. Just too
sensitive to eye placement.

What would I get? A cheapo laser for the secondary tilt and an Orion
collimating cap for the primary tilt. Or just the collimation cap.
Eeeghads! I have over $400 worth of collimation tools and I'm
recommending a freebie (Orion doesn't even sell these things
seperately).

Actually, I recommend that you use whatever you like best. I like
the Black Cat for the primary and a laser+autocollimator for the
secondary. If you like the cap, feel free to use as it
works as well as anything else. If you like high tech lasers, they
work, too (make sure they are collimated, themselves). If you like
star collimation, well, I dunno about that as it's cloudy and I
couldn't try that out.

For those that care about such things, the truth data was the Black
Cat and Infinity. I have checked them against myriad star tests and
they have proven themselves to be right on. They are repeatable.

One note: I have a Catseye red triangle as a center spot for my
primary. IMHO, this is a much better type of center spot for
accurate collimation. Just easier to see very small deviations.
Here's a pic:

http://www.tomhole.com/red%20triangle.jpg

If you need a center spot, get one of these. The template that Jim
Fly sells with it is fantastic.

http://www.catseyecollimation.com/ceyeflr1.html (bottom of the page)

Anyway, surprising how well the simple stuff works.

Tom




---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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David Trevino wrote:

I guess I'll sell the
laser collimator and buy me a barlow or something that I'll use more.


Gee. . .I wonder how the heck we ever saw a darn thing through our
scopes before the laser collimator came along.


---
Martin, don't need no stinkin' laser collimator, Howell

"Martin R. Howell" wrote:
David Trevino wrote:

I guess I'll sell the
laser collimator and buy me a barlow or something that I'll use more.

Gee. . .I wonder how the heck we ever saw a darn thing through our
scopes before the laser collimator came along.

I wonder what Newton did before 35mm film came along ;-)


Tim
--
Foo.

"Tim Auton" wrote

I wonder what Newton did before 35mm film came along ;-)

He was busy making rings for the glass in his enlargers.