A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Astronomy Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Sadi Carnot Questions the Second Law of Thermodynamics



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1  
Old March 2nd 17, 07:09 AM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,078
Default Sadi Carnot Questions the Second Law of Thermodynamics

The Conversation: "The next scientific breakthrough could come from the history books. New perspectives on old investigations might turn out to be promising routes to radical research. Most current research programmes represent attempts to make incremental advances, nurtured and supported by a conservative system of peer review. But the generation of really fresh ideas requires methods that don't just rely on linear progression." https://theconversation.com/the-next...ry-books-73553

My comment in The Conversation:

A revolution in science involving the refutation of the second law of thermodynamics can be triggered by the works of the founder, Sadi Carnot. The simplest and most precise formulation of the second law was given by Sadi Carnot himself:

"A cold body is necessary"

That is, heat cannot be cyclically converted into work unless there is some temperature gradient (a hot body, source of heat, and a cold body, receiver of heat, must be available). The problem is that in 1824 Carnot deduced "A cold body is necessary" from a postulate that eventually turned out to be false:

Carnot's (false) postulate: Heat is an indestructible substance (caloric) that cannot be converted into work by the heat engine.

Unpublished notes written in the period 1824-1832 reveal that, after realizing that his postulate was false, Carnot found "A cold body is necessary" implausible:

http://www.nd.edu/~powers/ame.20231/carnot1897.pdf
Sadi Carnot, REFLECTIONS ON THE MOTIVE POWER OF HEAT, p. 225: "Heat is simply motive power, or rather motion which has changed form. It is a movement among the particles of bodies. Wherever there is destruction of motive power there is, at the same time, production of heat in quantity exactly proportional to the quantity of motive power destroyed. Reciprocally, wherever there is destruction of heat, there is production of motive power." p. 222: "Could a motion (that of radiating heat) produce matter (caloric)? No, undoubtedly; it can only produce a motion. Heat is then the result of a motion. Then it is plain that it could be produced by the consumption of motive power, and that it could produce this power. All the other phenomena - composition and decomposition of bodies, passage to the gaseous state, specific heat, equilibrium of heat, its more or less easy transmission, its constancy in experiments with the calorimeter - could be explained by this hypothesis. But it would be DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN WHY, IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF MOTIVE POWER BY HEAT, A COLD BODY IS NECESSARY; why, in consuming the heat of a warm body, motion cannot be produced."

Generally, a cold body is not necessary, that is, the second law of thermodynamics is false. The cold body is only TECHNOLOGICALLY necessary as it makes heat engines fast-working. Heat engines working under isothermal conditions (in the absence of a cold body) are commonplace but are too slow and impuissant to be of any technological importance. Yet they do violate the second law of thermodynamics.

Pentcho Valev
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AGAINST THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS Pentcho Valev Astronomy Misc 2 January 26th 16 12:14 AM
GETTING RID OF THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS Pentcho Valev Astronomy Misc 2 June 22nd 13 10:25 AM
CARNOT'S DIFFICULTY WITH THE SECOND LAW Pentcho Valev Astronomy Misc 5 September 8th 11 04:41 AM
THE SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS Pentcho Valev Astronomy Misc 2 December 24th 10 12:47 AM
THE MYSTERY OF THE CARNOT THEOREM Pentcho Valev Astronomy Misc 6 March 30th 10 05:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.