A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Astronomy Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

All horizons are "apparent", subjective, not objective. 



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1  
Old September 17th 14, 08:25 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
Jeff-Relf.Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default All horizons are "apparent", subjective, not objective. 

PRE Style='White-Space: PRE !important; Font-Size: 18px !important;Font-Family: monospace !important;'Â*
You ( Tom Roberts ) replied to me:
You (Tom) are wrong about conditions at:

· The cosmological horizon ( i.e. the start of the big bang ).

· The event horizon of a supermassive black hole.

All horizons are "apparent", subjective, not objective.
The horizon depends on where/when you are.


This is just plain not true.
Some types of horizons are so dependent,
but most types are not.

For concreteness, I'll discuss
the Schwarzschild manifold of GR.


According to Wikipedia, the Schwarzschild metric assumes
"a stationary clock located infinitely far from the massive body".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwar...zschild_metric

In other words, it does ·not· describe
what local obserers see, beyond our horizon.

[ ..... ]
the locations of the horizons do NOT depend on
where you are located or what coordinates you use.

They are objective properties of the manifold:
on one side it is possible to reach spatial infinity,
and on the other side it is not.


Yes, but ·only· for:
"a stationary clock located infinitely far from the massive body".

The start of the "big bang",
indeed the ·apparent· start of space and time ( the timescape ),
depends on where/when you are.


[ ..... ]
The "cosmological horizon" of a given observer in these models does depend on
the observer's location. This is the locus beyond which the observer can never
observe any portion of a non-spacelike geodesic path, and that obviously depends
on where/when the observer is located. Perhaps this is what you are thinking of
-- but it is NOT a general property of horizons.


Yes, the start of the timescape ( i.e. the cosmological horizon )
depends on where/when you are.

Local observers see a ·much· lower energy density there/then,
beyond our horizon.

A local observer, at what appears (to us) to be a horizon,
would see no such horizon ( i.e. no redshift ).


Not true for the event horizon of a black hole, or for the big bang.
But it is true for an observer's cosmological horizon.


What ? ! Per General Relativity,
the redshift depends on when/where the observer is.

Locally, the energy density within these horizons is quite low.


Hmmm. The entire visible universe is within the cosmological horizon
of an observer on earth ( that's what these words mean ).


No, I'm saying:

Local observers, outside of our horizon, measure
a ·much· lower energy density ( vs. what we see ).

[ ..... ]
in the limit as one approaches the limit point of a
past-directed non-spacelike geodesic
(i.e. approaching the big bang from the future),
the energy density increases without bound.
[ ..... ]


Yes, but ONLY for:
"a stationary clock located infinitely far from the massive body".
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
just THREE YEARS AFTER my "CREWLESS Space Shuttle" article, theNSF """experts""" discover the idea of an unmanned Shuttle to fill the2010-2016 cargo-to-ISS (six+ years) GAP gaetanomarano Policy 3 September 15th 08 04:47 PM
and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, the NSF "slow motion experts" have(finally) "invented" MY "Multipurpose Orbital Rescue Vehicle"... just 20 gaetanomarano Policy 9 August 30th 08 12:05 AM
just how "close" does New Horizons get to the Moon? Rick Jones Technology 2 January 19th 06 08:45 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.