Group 5 astronauts and Apollo

In article ,
wrote:

On Sunday, September 23, 2012 4:13:44 AM UTC-5, Brian Lawrence wrote:
On 22/09/2012 18:19, Jan Philips wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:00:58 +0100, Brian Lawrence

That makes sense. [Anders] had already been around the Moon on A8, so he
would want to land.

...The other thing Deke could have done was essentially make him the same
promise as he made Mike Collins: you've been around once, we're in a bind,
and if you fly CMP for this mission, you'll be guaranteed a CDR and a
landing. I'll now pause while the two of you wrestle with *that* particular
pair of jokers from the deck.

McDivitt was sort of offered the LMP position on Shepard's crew but
having flown two missions as CDR wasn't exactly keen.

...Both Smilin' Al and McDivitt have gone on record that this was a friendly
but slightly sarcastic joke made by Al concerning Al's selection of two
rookies to fly with him on the then-A13 flight that was taken out of context.

If the mission involved docking (IE all except Apollo 7)

...Last I looked, the Apollo Flight Journal hadn't gotten their transcripts
done to that point in the mission, but ISTR that what ruled out either Eisley
or Cunningham was the fact that what little docking sim maneuvers were
performed were done by Wally. Not to knock the AFJ team by one nano-iota, but
after nearly a decade you think they'd finally get around to transcribing the
First Space Mutiny so we could all finally get to read Wally, Walt and
What's-His-Name's side of the story?

Slayton was forced to slot in two of his perceived 'weaker' guys,
Cernan & Aldrin. Although they were, in theory, qualified as CMPs

...See my previous comments regarding Cernan and McDivitt. Again, with Deke
no longer with us, and AFAIK any notes and/or official reports regarding
Astronaut qualifications and/or lack thereof, having been released for public
review, we can only speculate on just what made one Astronaut "weaker" than
another one.

Of course, YMMV on the "not yet released" part for Gordo Cooper :/

The support crews stayed the same until June
1967 when Ed Givens lost his life in an off-duty car accident.

...One interesting fact about Givens was that after his passing, a series of
petitions were filed by numerous Boy Scout troops - Givens had been a Scout
and a lifelong supporter of that organization - for the BSA to award Givens a
posthumous Eagle Scout award. Nothing ever came of it, and based on my own
experiences with Scouting in the early 70s, as well as some other rather
d-u-m-b decisions they're currently making, I can understand why. Just
verifies my decision to help the kids in the three local troops around my
parents' house by being what was sorely lacked during the late 80s and most
of the 90s: Merit Badge counseling. And I made godsdamned sure that the
little *******s learned and earned every single stinking one of those badges,
starting with First Aid, Space Exploration, the three Citizenship badges, and
if they were *really* on top of their stuff, we'd go for Basketweaving.

Then again, if they screwed up, they still got Basketweaving. :P


Early in 1968 Bull became medically disqualified from what was then
Apollo 9.

...In all fairness, Bull's career wasn't exactly devoid of stellar
achievements. To swipe from the Writ of Common Plagiarism:

"After receiving his Ph. D., Bull returned to NASA and worked at the Ames
Research Center from 1973 to 1985, where he conducted simulation and flight
test research in advanced flight systems for both helicopters and fixed-wing
aircraft. From 1986 until his retirement in 1989, he managed NASA-wide
research programs in autonomous systems technology for space applications. He
maintained an office at NASA Ames until at least 1997."

...And around the time Lind left NASA, some of the NASA guys who were around
in the group's early days said that he still had an office at Ames as late as
1998. I couldn't dig up the posts to that effect - thank you Google for not
maintaining the integrity of those DejaNews backups - but 1998 was what was
reported around here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Bull

Ken Mattingly was assigned to 'shadow' the backup CMP, Bill Anders,
who was leaving NASA.

...Confusion point here, Brian: IIRC, Anders didn't announce his leaving NASA
until after A8 had flown and returned. Nixon didn't offer him the NASA ExSec
position until just before he was sworn in, and that was when Anders made it
official he was leaving to accept the post. Possibly one of the few Nixon
appointees who managed to survive Nixon's post-Watergate debacle without any
fallout.

Then again, he was on the AEC and the first chairman of the NRC, so YMMV on
the fallout issue...:/


The only G5 astronaut who didn't get a support crew position appears to
have been Don Lind, but he did work with Jack Schmitt on early
development of ALSEP deployment procedures

...My understanding is that Lind's work with Schmitt was only on EASEP and
not the ALSEP packages.

I apologise for going over old ground :-)

...Apollogize? Perish the thought, Brian. This is the type of discussions
that George Herbert founded this group upon! Pat will be sorry he missed out
on this one, as the crew roster debates were some of his more favored topics
in space history.




OM

You may have known Scott MacLeod, then.

On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:55:59 AM UTC-6, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,

You may have known Scott MacLeod, then.

....The name sounds familiar. In fact, Scott MacLeod was the Grumman test pilot who was on-air from inside Grumman's LM mockup in Bethpage, while Leo Krupp was doing the same at North American in a CSM trainer. Both of whom were on See-BS talking to Unca Walter.

....As for knowing either MacLeod or Krupp, keep in mind that, although I knew almost all of the good people - especially the engineers who were crusty old engineers when I first met them - at the local See-BS affiliate, I didn't finally go to work for the local See-BS station until 20 years after. So a lot of the info that I've gathered over the years as to how the networks and their affiliates handled their coverage comes mostly from second and even third-hand sources. And some of that info was given the disclaimer warning of "IIRC" even before the acronym came into use on BITNET, ARPAnet and even Usenet. So, as I've discovered thankfully only in a couple of cases, what I managed to dig up wound up being fairly free of "Recollection FUD", and actually helped in one specific case in dealing with a case of "Diffical Techculties" with transferring the station's 2" Ampex tape from the soon-to-be-retired RCA VTR to both 3/4" and 1/2" Sony tapes. The revelation on *that* one was a surprise, and if I can dig up the old, old post(s) I made on that adventure I'll repost it here if you or anyone else is interested.

....On a side note, here's a thesis Alfred Hogan did on how the networks handled NASA events coverage that might be of interest to you and Jan:

http://drum.lib.umd.edu//handle/1903/2579

....Hogan I've always been a bit jealous of, because he got a *lot* farther in dealing with the Big Three networks insofar as his research went. I worked as a video engineer and IT guy for the station LBJ built, and the best I ever got was $750.00 USD circa 1990 for just *two* VHS tapes dubbed from a "highlights collection" someone at the network compiled. I got sent a sample of the quality, and it became apparent that the clips were from third and even fourth-gen sources, with no real attempts to improve chroma and/or contrast quality between the dubs. Needless to say I passed on the tapes, even if the price quoted happened to be the "employee discount".

....So, to get back to your comment, Scott MacLeod I've never met, but both he and Leo Krupp were ones I'd loved to have sat down and talked to them about their experiences with working with See-BS, and how they handled being on the air in front of millions of people

[thinks]

....Jeez. I just realized something. This topic has caused me to post more to ssh in just this thread alone than I have in the almost two years since my liver tried to snuff me. Damn sure refreshing, to say the least!

OM

OM wrote:

...On a side note, here's a thesis Alfred Hogan did on how the networks
handled NASA events coverage that might be of interest to you and Jan:

http://drum.lib.umd.edu//handle/1903/2579

....Quick correction: Al only goes into detail about See-BS' coverage. While he acknowledges the contributions made by ABC and NBC, he chose for what turned out to be a good reason to only choose one network's coverage to base his thesis on. The sheer magnitude of red tape, lost archives, and dwindling numbers of those still alive who'd worked on producing, engineering and even anchoring the broadcasts that encompassing all three networks would have been more than one person could have accomplished for even a major book publication, much less a college thesis. After doing a quick look at Al's thesis - just to check how Win 8's built-in bare-bones PDF reader looks and works - I noticed the missive on my part. Mea Culprit :P

OM

In article ,
wrote:

On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:55:59 AM UTC-6, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,

You may have known Scott MacLeod, then.

...The name sounds familiar. In fact, Scott MacLeod was the Grumman test
pilot who was on-air from inside Grumman's LM mockup in Bethpage, while Leo
Krupp was doing the same at North American in a CSM trainer. Both of whom
were on See-BS talking to Unca Walter.

...As for knowing either MacLeod or Krupp, keep in mind that, although I knew
almost all of the good people - especially the engineers who were crusty old
engineers when I first met them - at the local See-BS affiliate, I didn't
finally go to work for the local See-BS station until 20 years after. So a
lot of the info that I've gathered over the years as to how the networks and
their affiliates handled their coverage comes mostly from second and even
third-hand sources. And some of that info was given the disclaimer warning of
"IIRC" even before the acronym came into use on BITNET, ARPAnet and even
Usenet. So, as I've discovered thankfully only in a couple of cases, what I
managed to dig up wound up being fairly free of "Recollection FUD", and
actually helped in one specific case in dealing with a case of "Diffical
Techculties" with transferring the station's 2" Ampex tape from the
soon-to-be-retired RCA VTR to both 3/4" and 1/2" Sony tapes. The revelation
on *that* one was a surprise, and if I can dig up the old, old post(s) I made
on that adventure I'll repost it here if you or anyone else is interested.

...On a side note, here's a thesis Alfred Hogan did on how the networks
handled NASA events coverage that might be of interest to you and Jan:

http://drum.lib.umd.edu//handle/1903/2579

...Hogan I've always been a bit jealous of, because he got a *lot* farther in
dealing with the Big Three networks insofar as his research went. I worked as
a video engineer and IT guy for the station LBJ built, and the best I ever
got was $750.00 USD circa 1990 for just *two* VHS tapes dubbed from a
"highlights collection" someone at the network compiled. I got sent a sample
of the quality, and it became apparent that the clips were from third and
even fourth-gen sources, with no real attempts to improve chroma and/or
contrast quality between the dubs. Needless to say I passed on the tapes,
even if the price quoted happened to be the "employee discount".

...So, to get back to your comment, Scott MacLeod I've never met, but both he
and Leo Krupp were ones I'd loved to have sat down and talked to them about
their experiences with working with See-BS, and how they handled being on the
air in front of millions of people

[thinks]

...Jeez. I just realized something. This topic has caused me to post more to
ssh in just this thread alone than I have in the almost two years since my
liver tried to snuff me. Damn sure refreshing, to say the least!

OM

Scott and his wife, Joyce, are good friends. I met him a few years ago
here at Spruce Creek one Saturday morning. A friend asked me if I would
give him a ride -- of course, I said "Yes." I didn't know him from Adam,
so I asked if he was a pilot. A: "Yes."
Q: What have you flown?
A: "F6F, F4U,F9F, FJ, A4, F-14."

So we took off, me flying wing on a Twin Comanche. I asked if he wanted
to fly -- he shook the stick and promptly tightened it up.

Oh, the stories he and Joyce can tell!

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:55:59 AM UTC-6, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article
,

You may have known Scott MacLeod, then.

...The name sounds familiar. In fact, Scott MacLeod was the Grumman
test pilot who was on-air from inside Grumman's LM mockup in
Bethpage, while Leo Krupp was doing the same at North American in a
CSM trainer. Both of whom were on See-BS talking to Unca Walter.

...As for knowing either MacLeod or Krupp, keep in mind that,
although I knew almost all of the good people - especially the
engineers who were crusty old engineers when I first met them - at
the local See-BS affiliate, I didn't finally go to work for the
local See-BS station until 20 years after. So a lot of the info
that I've gathered over the years as to how the networks and their
affiliates handled their coverage comes mostly from second and even
third-hand sources. And some of that info was given the disclaimer
warning of "IIRC" even before the acronym came into use on BITNET,
ARPAnet and even Usenet. So, as I've discovered thankfully only in
a couple of cases, what I managed to dig up wound up being fairly
free of "Recollection FUD", and actually helped in one specific
case in dealing with a case of "Diffical Techculties" with
transferring the station's 2" Ampex tape from the
soon-to-be-retired RCA VTR to both 3/4" and 1/2" Sony tapes. The
revelation on *that* one was a surprise, and if I can dig up the
old, old post(s) I made on that adventure I'll repost it here if
you or anyone else is interested.

...On a side note, here's a thesis Alfred Hogan did on how the
networks handled NASA events coverage that might be of interest to
you and Jan:

http://drum.lib.umd.edu//handle/1903/2579

...Hogan I've always been a bit jealous of, because he got a *lot*
farther in dealing with the Big Three networks insofar as his
research went. I worked as a video engineer and IT guy for the
station LBJ built, and the best I ever got was $750.00 USD circa
1990 for just *two* VHS tapes dubbed from a "highlights collection"
someone at the network compiled. I got sent a sample of the
quality, and it became apparent that the clips were from third and
even fourth-gen sources, with no real attempts to improve chroma
and/or contrast quality between the dubs. Needless to say I passed
on the tapes, even if the price quoted happened to be the "employee
discount".

...So, to get back to your comment, Scott MacLeod I've never met,
but both he and Leo Krupp were ones I'd loved to have sat down and
talked to them about their experiences with working with See-BS,
and how they handled being on the air in front of millions of
people

[thinks]

...Jeez. I just realized something. This topic has caused me to
post more to ssh in just this thread alone than I have in the
almost two years since my liver tried to snuff me. Damn sure
refreshing, to say the least!

OM

Scott and his wife, Joyce, are good friends. I met him a few years
ago here at Spruce Creek one Saturday morning. A friend asked me if
I would give him a ride -- of course, I said "Yes." I didn't know
him from Adam, so I asked if he was a pilot. A: "Yes."
Q: What have you flown?
A: "F6F, F4U,F9F, FJ, A4, F-14."

Spruce Creek? as in 4,000' hard surface, not too fat from
I-95?
Nice place, but I understand it's positively infested with golfers.
Do you get over to Sun 'n Fun?

One thing about being transplanted to Floridia, you meet the most
interesting people - I went over to look at a military vehicles
diplay at Fantasy of Flight and ended up spending a delightful
afternoon with Joe Kittenger. I didn't realize that he spent the
'50s working with John Stapp and Randy Lovelace.
(I've got to write something about them - they were as much a part
of the Supersonic Age and the Space Race as the High Speed Flight
guys out of Edwards, but never quite got the press.)

So we took off, me flying wing on a Twin Comanche. I asked if he
wanted to fly -- he shook the stick and promptly tightened it up.

Oh, the stories he and Joyce can tell!
I'll bet. As I remember it, the early F-14s were a bit of a wormcan.

--
Pete Stickney
From the foothills of the Florida Alps

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
Scott and his wife, Joyce, are good friends. I met him a few years ago
here at Spruce Creek one Saturday morning. A friend asked me if I would
give him a ride -- of course, I said "Yes." I didn't know him from Adam,
so I asked if he was a pilot. A: "Yes."
Q: What have you flown?
A: "F6F, F4U,F9F, FJ, A4, F-14."


That reminds me of the scene from the 'Apollo 13' film where Neil and Buzz
are sitting with Lovell's mother during re-entry, and she asks them: "Are
you boys in the space program too?"
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."

In article ,
Peter Stickney wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Monday, November 12, 2012 9:55:59 AM UTC-6, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:
In article
,

You may have known Scott MacLeod, then.

...The name sounds familiar. In fact, Scott MacLeod was the Grumman
test pilot who was on-air from inside Grumman's LM mockup in
Bethpage, while Leo Krupp was doing the same at North American in a
CSM trainer. Both of whom were on See-BS talking to Unca Walter.

...As for knowing either MacLeod or Krupp, keep in mind that,
although I knew almost all of the good people - especially the
engineers who were crusty old engineers when I first met them - at
the local See-BS affiliate, I didn't finally go to work for the
local See-BS station until 20 years after. So a lot of the info
that I've gathered over the years as to how the networks and their
affiliates handled their coverage comes mostly from second and even
third-hand sources. And some of that info was given the disclaimer
warning of "IIRC" even before the acronym came into use on BITNET,
ARPAnet and even Usenet. So, as I've discovered thankfully only in
a couple of cases, what I managed to dig up wound up being fairly
free of "Recollection FUD", and actually helped in one specific
case in dealing with a case of "Diffical Techculties" with
transferring the station's 2" Ampex tape from the
soon-to-be-retired RCA VTR to both 3/4" and 1/2" Sony tapes. The
revelation on *that* one was a surprise, and if I can dig up the
old, old post(s) I made on that adventure I'll repost it here if
you or anyone else is interested.

...On a side note, here's a thesis Alfred Hogan did on how the
networks handled NASA events coverage that might be of interest to
you and Jan:

http://drum.lib.umd.edu//handle/1903/2579

...Hogan I've always been a bit jealous of, because he got a *lot*
farther in dealing with the Big Three networks insofar as his
research went. I worked as a video engineer and IT guy for the
station LBJ built, and the best I ever got was $750.00 USD circa
1990 for just *two* VHS tapes dubbed from a "highlights collection"
someone at the network compiled. I got sent a sample of the
quality, and it became apparent that the clips were from third and
even fourth-gen sources, with no real attempts to improve chroma
and/or contrast quality between the dubs. Needless to say I passed
on the tapes, even if the price quoted happened to be the "employee
discount".

...So, to get back to your comment, Scott MacLeod I've never met,
but both he and Leo Krupp were ones I'd loved to have sat down and
talked to them about their experiences with working with See-BS,
and how they handled being on the air in front of millions of
people

[thinks]

...Jeez. I just realized something. This topic has caused me to
post more to ssh in just this thread alone than I have in the
almost two years since my liver tried to snuff me. Damn sure
refreshing, to say the least!

OM

Scott and his wife, Joyce, are good friends. I met him a few years
ago here at Spruce Creek one Saturday morning. A friend asked me if
I would give him a ride -- of course, I said "Yes." I didn't know
him from Adam, so I asked if he was a pilot. A: "Yes."
Q: What have you flown?
A: "F6F, F4U,F9F, FJ, A4, F-14."

Spruce Creek? as in 4,000' hard surface, not too fat from
I-95?
Nice place, but I understand it's positively infested with golfers.
Do you get over to Sun 'n Fun?

Yes -- but I only got there once this year. The Country Club is not the
social center -- the Downwind Cafe is. Ever get over here?


One thing about being transplanted to Floridia, you meet the most
interesting people - I went over to look at a military vehicles
diplay at Fantasy of Flight and ended up spending a delightful
afternoon with Joe Kittenger. I didn't realize that he spent the
'50s working with John Stapp and Randy Lovelace.
(I've got to write something about them - they were as much a part
of the Supersonic Age and the Space Race as the High Speed Flight
guys out of Edwards, but never quite got the press.)

I have met a parade of interesting people here -- from a former JCS
Chief to Boots Blesse and Robin Olds. Those guys were bigger than life!



So we took off, me flying wing on a Twin Comanche. I asked if he
wanted to fly -- he shook the stick and promptly tightened it up.

Oh, the stories he and Joyce can tell!
I'll bet. As I remember it, the early F-14s were a bit of a wormcan.

I'm not sure how much time Scott had in the F-14 -- he was a late WW-II
guy.

In article ,
"GordonD" wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
Scott and his wife, Joyce, are good friends. I met him a few years ago
here at Spruce Creek one Saturday morning. A friend asked me if I would
give him a ride -- of course, I said "Yes." I didn't know him from Adam,
so I asked if he was a pilot. A: "Yes."
Q: What have you flown?
A: "F6F, F4U,F9F, FJ, A4, F-14."


That reminds me of the scene from the 'Apollo 13' film where Neil and Buzz
are sitting with Lovell's mother during re-entry, and she asks them: "Are
you boys in the space program too?"

The four of us visited the Isle of Skye a few years ago. Scott wanted to
visit his ancestral home and the Castle Macleod. We got the backstage
tour of the castle and got to climb up on the roof. Beautiful ground,
but the living quarters left something to be desired.

I came up with a "Good News/Bad News" gag:

First the Good News: You have inherited a castle in Scotland.

Now, the Bad News: You have inherited a castle in Scotland.