Technical / Procedural Advice for Film

I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

It is my understanding that SETI is only prepared to identify an
incoming signal as "not natural" and has no specific procedures in
place at all regarding what message to send out.

Which is fine, they probably don't need one. But what if an alien
object appeared? What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

I assume the Military would get involved and would want to determine
if it was a spy satellite, or some other kind of threat. Would they
have the power keep it a secret? Would people at NASA keep it a
secret? Would SETI even be informed?

I don't want to discuss all the details of the plot on a public forum.
So if there is anyone who works at NASA or SETI and would be willing
to discuss this please email me. Knowledgeable and interested laymen
are also welcome.

Thanks very much for your time.

Joseph

Joseph wrote:
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

It is my understanding that SETI is only prepared to identify an
incoming signal as "not natural" and has no specific procedures in
place at all regarding what message to send out.

Which is fine, they probably don't need one. But what if an alien
object appeared? What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

Either that, or shoot it. It'd be a great test for the killer
satellites I would think. :^/

I assume the Military would get involved and would want to determine
if it was a spy satellite, or some other kind of threat. Would they
have the power keep it a secret? Would people at NASA keep it a
secret? Would SETI even be informed?

I don't see why NASA would contact SETI. NASA would probably contact the
white house. Who knows what would happen after.

Rich

I don't want to discuss all the details of the plot on a public forum.
So if there is anyone who works at NASA or SETI and would be willing
to discuss this please email me. Knowledgeable and interested laymen
are also welcome.

Thanks very much for your time.

Joseph

Joseph,
If you don't mind a bit of reality intruding, do a Google search for:
["Fast Walker" AND 1984]
Something approaches Earth, too slowly to escape from Earth's gravity, but
then it leaves at the same leisurely rate; physics says this is not
possible, without propulsion.
It's just History.
Cheers,
Red
--
*************************
Replies will bounce, unless you remove
the letter A from my email address.

Joseph wrote:
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

It is my understanding that SETI is only prepared to identify an
incoming signal as "not natural" and has no specific procedures in
place at all regarding what message to send out.

Which is fine, they probably don't need one. But what if an alien
object appeared? What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

I assume the Military would get involved and would want to determine
if it was a spy satellite, or some other kind of threat. Would they
have the power keep it a secret? Would people at NASA keep it a
secret? Would SETI even be informed?

I don't want to discuss all the details of the plot on a public forum.
So if there is anyone who works at NASA or SETI and would be willing
to discuss this please email me. Knowledgeable and interested laymen
are also welcome.

Thanks very much for your time.

Joseph

"Jason H." wrote:

Anything goes, you could write it anyway you want. Additionally, you
might want to read the sci-fi book 'Rendezvous with Rama' by Arthur C.
Clarke and "Rama II" (don't let the title scare you, it's not about
religion.)

And Childhood's End.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

Joseph wrote:
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

As long as it is not very big (please no ID4 size ships) it is
unlikely to be detected approaching and entering orbit. Being first
seen by the shuttle is extraordinarily unlikely. It would have to pass
close enough to notice it and make out what it is. Passing in orbit
that close, probably no less than a couple miles just to be noticed
and then quick to the binoculars if any are on board to make up it is
odd is a very low probability. Then multiply by the fraction of the
year a shuttle is in orbit. A very dramatic scene is possible but it
was unlikely when SG-1 and Outer Limits did it. It won't get any more
likly for you.

Noticing something passing by a mile or so away would at most lead to
a report. Then a NASA search for new objects in orbit. That is going
to take a while. The chances of seeing it on a second pass in orbit,
appropriately, astronomical. So there is no way to get a decent guess
at its orbit. Without that there is no way to know where to look. We
have a one time anomaly remembered only by MUFON and such.

It is my understanding that SETI is only prepared to identify an
incoming signal as "not natural" and has no specific procedures in
place at all regarding what message to send out.

With SETI it has to pass through a search beam and be transmitting on
a frequency it is listening to and then is shows up as a wow event
when the tapes get processed some time later.

Which is fine, they probably don't need one. But what if an alien
object appeared? What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

It is unlikely anyone is going to be looking for it. It should
eventually show up on the junk tracking radar. It will be a decent
size and not explainable. For the life of me I don't know how to get a
picture of it unless a spy satellite can be retasked to get a
picture. We see the best NASA has when they follow the shuttle after
launch. I have never seen an image of more than a bright object at
twilight when it is in orbit. Neither of the space station which is
much larger.

That leaves getting up enough interest and trying to get a shuttle or
a Russian cargo module into the same orbit which may not be possible.
The whole thing is likely going to break in a NASA press release of an
anomalous object sighting before anything serious is done.

I assume the Military would get involved and would want to determine
if it was a spy satellite, or some other kind of threat. Would they
have the power keep it a secret? Would people at NASA keep it a
secret? Would SETI even be informed?

I don't see where the secrecy starts. A new spy satellite is not
worth secrecy not that it is going to be a press release but won't be
classified. If you insist upon the shuttle coincidence it is not a spy
sat orbit and if it is in a spy sat orbit they could never have seen it.

I don't want to discuss all the details of the plot on a public forum.
So if there is anyone who works at NASA or SETI and would be willing
to discuss this please email me. Knowledgeable and interested laymen
are also welcome.

In the end it is likely going to be written off as a final stage that
didn't deorbit. It going to be an anomoly until it does something to
attract attention.

--
Jews in the US should be treated as non-Jews are treated
in Israel to show how well Israel treats them.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3063

(Joseph) wrote in message . com...
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

Joseph,
I would _highly_ recommend you try to get ahold of someone in CONTACT:
Cultures of the Imagination. We've done speculation about this sort of
thing for years, and have papers and documentation going back about 10
years or more. Web site: http://www.contact-conference.com/

There _are_ procedures. Some have been worked out by the Smithsonian
and State Department in cooperation with people from CONTACT and other
organizations.

Have fun and good luck with the screen play.
Aleta

I think the only reason to send humans up would be if you happened to notice
a docking port that looked like it would work with our docking mechanisms.
That would imply either Earth origin or the aliens want us to come visit.
You can't rule out the possibility of Iran putting something in orbit. I
don't know how to determine if the object is alien, but there might be some
evidence.

In sci.space.policy Matt Giwer wrote:
Joseph wrote:
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

The commonly agreed plan in the SETI community has to do with
confirmation and public announcement - see, for example, the draft
protocol at
http://www.coseti.org/setiprot.htm
which basically says do local signal confirmation, if appropriate
get remote confirmation, ask colleagues, make all the data
public and archive it, protect the frequency if it's a contact by
EM radiation, and throw any question of a reply to the UN.

As long as it is not very big (please no ID4 size ships) it is
unlikely to be detected approaching and entering orbit. Being first
seen by the shuttle is extraordinarily unlikely. It would have to pass
close enough to notice it and make out what it is. Passing in orbit
that close, probably no less than a couple miles just to be noticed
and then quick to the binoculars if any are on board to make up it is
odd is a very low probability. Then multiply by the fraction of the
year a shuttle is in orbit. A very dramatic scene is possible but it
was unlikely when SG-1 and Outer Limits did it. It won't get any more
likly for you.

The most likely approach reports would be from one of the NEO asteroid
programs - perhaps even an amateur. A couple of spacecraft (including
Wind out beyond lunar orbit) have been "accidentally" detected in this
way. In this way, secrecy goes out the window - the object would
first show up with prelininary positions and orbital elements,
presumably attract attention because of its course, and get really
exciting as it decelerated during approach. It might be just plausible
for it to be detected during one of the upcoming deep-infrared
sky-survey missions (I believe the Next-Generation Sky Survey is
still in the works), or maybe either WMAP or its upcoming European
counterpart Planck, both near the outer Earth-Sun Lagrange point
about a million miles in the midnight direction.

....snip...
It is unlikely anyone is going to be looking for it. It should
eventually show up on the junk tracking radar. It will be a decent
size and not explainable. For the life of me I don't know how to get a
picture of it unless a spy satellite can be retasked to get a
picture. We see the best NASA has when they follow the shuttle after
launch. I have never seen an image of more than a bright object at
twilight when it is in orbit. Neither of the space station which is
much larger.

Even small telescopes on the ground can give identifiable images of
shuttle orbiters or ISS. There are remarkable examples in WWWland, and
I've shown students the solar panels on ISS with 8-10" telescopes.
There is some dramatic possiblity inherent in this, as blurry
images appear and wildly disparate interpretations are offered.

Bill Keel

I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a
mysterious alien object that suddenly appears in Earth
orbit. In the story it is first spotted by the space
shuttle and then confirmed by radar and telescopes on the
ground.

The astronauts (even when they are in space) don't spend
much time looking out the windows, and when they do they are
much more likely to look down at the ground. A Shuttle crew
person looking out the window would have a tiny chance of
seeing anything flying by in space - it is real dependent on
lighting. This also goes for crew people on the Station -
and they have a LOT fewer windows there also.

The object would first be spotted by one of the defense
radar systems - the Naval Space Surveillance System or the
NORAD tracking network. It would take them several days to
notice that it was there, and to establish it's orbit. The
Spacetrack system assumes that everything comes from the
ground and they start tracking it during launch. A tiny
number of objects do break off from exisiting space objects
and slowly drift away. The system is not set up to look for
or spot objects that "rapidly" appear from extra-solar
depths. I once talked to J Allen Hynek about this and he
seemed pretty surprised.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures
people in the space and SETI communities would go through
in the first few minutes and hours after discovering it.

Think weeks. The system is designed to follow launches from
the ground, catalog items that are launched, and then track
them. We are not looking at deep space for items
approaching. Ergo the suggestions to start a "plane****ch"
to look for approaching (killer????) meteors.

It is my understanding that SETI is only prepared to
identify an incoming signal as "not natural" and has no
specific procedures in place at all regarding what message
to send out.
Which is fine, they probably don't need one. But what if
an alien object appeared? What would people do? Form a
committee and discuss it for a year before contacting it?

So the object would also be radiating in the electromagnetic
spectrum? Again, the spacetrack system is set up to look
down towards Earth, and even SETI is looking for distant
(and so very faint) signals. Signals that were strong/close
would be automatically discarded. After some time, they
might be investigated.

To generate a rendezvous/inspection mission of some sort
would probably take YEARS. To generate a landing mission
would take longer. Operations in space are still a very
dangerous and time-consuming business.

I assume the Military would get involved and would want to
determine if it was a spy satellite, or some other kind of
threat. Would they have the power keep it a secret? Would
people at NASA keep it a secret? Would SETI even be
informed?

Spy satellites are launched from the ground and are followed
constantly. Something appearing from deep space would not be
considered a spy satellite candidate.

The military is very poor about keeping any secrets anyway -
as the movie "Contact" pointed out. Lots of observatories
would be contacted well before anyone thought it would be
good to keep it secret. Think about the movie "Armageddon".

The military couldn't even keep the KH-11 a secret very
long.

I don't want to discuss all the details of the plot on a
public forum. So if there is anyone who works at NASA or
SETI and would be willing to discuss this please email me.
Knowledgeable and interested laymen are also welcome.

Thanks very much for your time.

Joseph


Charles Phillips
"Drink Upstream Of The Herd, Get A Macintosh"
lid - note feeble anti-spam attempt

Rich wrote
Joseph wrote:
What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

Either that, or shoot it. It'd be a great test for the killer
satellites I would think. :^/

Wouldnt it be extremely dangerous to attack andalien object when you
have absolutely no idea what it's capabilities are? Certainly people
in the military would make the suggestion. But would the President go
through with it?Also how easy is it to attack something in orbit?