Reverting to form

It's fascinating watching the posts about the 'love triangle'... The
first scapegoat many reach for is to blame NASA managment.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Derek Lyons wrote:
It's fascinating watching the posts about the 'love triangle'... The
first scapegoat many reach for is to blame NASA managment.

From the reports I've seen coming out, NASA's rules for managing
astronauts are not as stringent as the Pentagon's rules for managing
military staff who handle nuclear weapons. As I just posted in another
discussion thread, the U.S. Strategic Air Command (now Air Combat
Command) and the ballistic missile submarine force have been following
the Personnel Reliability Program (PRP) rules for decades--safely.

For example, we now have mixed-gender crews on our nuclear bombers. But
the Air Force strictly prohibits fraternization, whereas NASA has no
rule against fraternization among astronauts. A pilot or weapons
operator on a B-52 is supposed to voluntarily report for other duty (or
temporarily relieved of duty) if he is having any personal troubles at
home, whereas no equivalent apparently exists for NASA astronauts. If a
NASA astronaut found out that his spouse is having an affair or
demanding a divorce just before a mission, it appears that he would
still be allowed to keep that information to himself and go on the mission.

NASA seems to have had a more relaxed attitude toward the personal lives
of their astronauts. That may have been OK back when the Mercury
astronauts were all test pilots. But today's NASA crews are more
diverse, including civilians, and it's no longer OK. NASA should just
institute the same stringent PRP program that our bomber and ballistic
missile submarine crews have been using for decades.

In this case, it's not just Lisa Nowak who should be punished. Under
PRP, her male astronaut boyfriend, William Oefelein, would be punished
too, for allowing a relationship to blossom without warning NASA about it.


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"Steven L." ) writes:
Derek Lyons wrote:
It's fascinating watching the posts about the 'love triangle'... The
first scapegoat many reach for is to blame NASA managment.

[...]

In this case, it's not just Lisa Nowak who should be punished. Under
PRP, her male astronaut boyfriend, William Oefelein, would be punished
too, for allowing a relationship to blossom without warning NASA about it.

What specific proof has been found that shows that Oefelein was in any
actual way involved with Nowak in any romantic manner ?

This is rather like the woman in Arizona, IIRC ( On which state this
took place, that is ), who got a court to grant her a restraining order
against David Letterman for his "apparent " use of code words indicating
Mr. Letterman's involvement with her.

While the RO was lifted by Mr. Lettermans lawyers a week or so
later, that an out and out nutjob who had never even *met* Mr.
Letterman got such an order, only shows how far away from holding
men innocent until *proven* guilty weve gone.

We know what Nowak tried to do, and we know what she did to get there,
and what she had with her at the time. We do NOT apparently know if
Oefelein had done anything towards Nowak. How about we wait to *find
that out first*, before we castigate him ?

Andre

"Steven L." wrote in message
link.net...
Derek Lyons wrote:
NASA seems to have had a more relaxed attitude toward the personal lives
of their astronauts. That may have been OK back when the Mercury
astronauts were all test pilots. But today's NASA crews are more diverse,
including civilians, and it's no longer OK. NASA should just institute
the same stringent PRP program that our bomber and ballistic missile
submarine crews have been using for decades.

Why is it not "ok"?

Why should NASA "just institute the same stringent PRP" program?


Sorry, but you're begging the question here.



In this case, it's not just Lisa Nowak who should be punished. Under PRP,
her male astronaut boyfriend, William Oefelein, would be punished too, for
allowing a relationship to blossom without warning NASA about it.


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email:
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

"Steven L." wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:
It's fascinating watching the posts about the 'love triangle'... The
first scapegoat many reach for is to blame NASA managment.

From the reports I've seen coming out, NASA's rules for managing
astronauts are not as stringent as the Pentagon's rules for managing
military staff who handle nuclear weapons.

Unsurprising - as the responsibilities of an astronaut are nowhere
near that of a nuclear weaponeer.

As I just posted in another discussion thread, the U.S. Strategic Air
Command (now Air Combat Command) and the ballistic missile submarine
force have been following the Personnel Reliability Program (PRP) rules
for decades--safely. For example, we now have mixed-gender crews on our
nuclear bombers. But the Air Force strictly prohibits fraternization,
whereas NASA has no rule against fraternization among astronauts.

Which should surprise no one with sufficient brain cells to
differentiate between a military organization and a civilian
organization.

NASA seems to have had a more relaxed attitude toward the personal lives
of their astronauts. That may have been OK back when the Mercury
astronauts were all test pilots. But today's NASA crews are more
diverse, including civilians, and it's no longer OK. NASA should just
institute the same stringent PRP program that our bomber and ballistic
missile submarine crews have been using for decades.

ROTFLMAO. Dude, whatever you are smoking, put it down and walk away
from it.

In this case, it's not just Lisa Nowak who should be punished. Under
PRP, her male astronaut boyfriend, William Oefelein, would be punished
too, for allowing a relationship to blossom without warning NASA about it.

It's fascinating that utterly absent any facts, you stand ready to
convict William Oefelein. But, given the amount of intelligence not
displayed in the remainder of your post - I shouldn't be surprised.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Steven L." wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:
It's fascinating watching the posts about the 'love triangle'... The
first scapegoat many reach for is to blame NASA managment.

From the reports I've seen coming out, NASA's rules for managing
astronauts are not as stringent as the Pentagon's rules for managing
military staff who handle nuclear weapons.

Unsurprising - as the responsibilities of an astronaut are nowhere
near that of a nuclear weaponeer.

As I just posted in another discussion thread, the U.S. Strategic Air
Command (now Air Combat Command) and the ballistic missile submarine
force have been following the Personnel Reliability Program (PRP) rules
for decades--safely. For example, we now have mixed-gender crews on our
nuclear bombers. But the Air Force strictly prohibits fraternization,
whereas NASA has no rule against fraternization among astronauts.

Which should surprise no one with sufficient brain cells to
differentiate between a military organization and a civilian
organization.

NASA seems to have had a more relaxed attitude toward the personal lives
of their astronauts. That may have been OK back when the Mercury
astronauts were all test pilots. But today's NASA crews are more
diverse, including civilians, and it's no longer OK. NASA should just
institute the same stringent PRP program that our bomber and ballistic
missile submarine crews have been using for decades.

ROTFLMAO. Dude, whatever you are smoking, put it down and walk away
from it.

In this case, it's not just Lisa Nowak who should be punished. Under
PRP, her male astronaut boyfriend, William Oefelein, would be punished
too, for allowing a relationship to blossom without warning NASA about
it.

It's fascinating that utterly absent any facts, you stand ready to
convict William Oefelein. But, given the amount of intelligence not
displayed in the remainder of your post - I shouldn't be surprised.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

We don't even know if he was aware of her affection towards him, much less
whether or not there was actually something going on between them.

George

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
Why should NASA "just institute the same stringent PRP" program?


Consider that an astronaut gets to spend perhsaps 2 weeks of his LIFE in
space, and many many many years training and working on the ground.

This is quite different than some guy just out of puberty spending months
in a submarine without seeing the light of day.

Astronauts spend a lot of time together, and many even have activities
together outside of work. So friendships are to be expected. Isn't there
some astronaut musical band that plays in bars ?

It seems to have worked quite well so far, considering the type of
testosterone junkies NASA hires as pilots. Just because there is one
highly visible incident doesn't mean that the formula is wrong.

My guess is that after the next couple of days, any new information on this
case will dry up and the media will focus elsewhere. It was a nice
diversion for the american media who didn't have to report on more serious
matters such as the surfacing of a tape the US military had denied existed
for 4 years. (proving US military killed british troups in Irak).


There are more important things to discuss than some silly cat fight
between 2 women fighting for the same man.

This should now be a private matter. Let the courts decide on the matter
between the parties involved and their immediate families.

John Doe wrote:

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
Why should NASA "just institute the same stringent PRP" program?


Consider that an astronaut gets to spend perhsaps 2 weeks of his LIFE in
space, and many many many years training and working on the ground.

This is quite different than some guy just out of puberty spending months
in a submarine without seeing the light of day.

Less than a third of a submarine crew is subject to the PRP - and at
least half of *them* are over 25.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

We don't even know if he was aware of her affection towards him, much less
whether or not there was actually something going on between them.


It's quite common for someone to screw up like this. Someone in love
with someone who isn't interested in them. That they don't pick up the
cues that there is an error here. Or they think the cues are jokes, or
noise or playing "hard to get". Most people do eventually do figure it
out, cut their losses, and move on. And usually the worst revenge the
do is to just spambait their e-mail addresses...