14-bis First Flight

Hi!

Today, October 23, 2006, is the 100th anniversary of the first flight
made by Santos Dummont, in Paris, France, with an airplane, the 14-bis.
As part of the commemorations in Brazil, the Brazilian Air Force (FAB)
made a replica of the 14-bis, and flight it in the Sunday, 22 october.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/es...s/1906/WR9.htm
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/es...umont/DI41.htm
http://individual.utoronto.ca/firstflight/
http://www.embraer.com.br/institucio...ante/3_721.pdf

Pictures of the 2006 event:

http://www.agenciabrasil.gov.br/medi...0689T.jpg/view
http://www.agenciabrasil.gov.br/medi...0697T.jpg/view
http://www.agenciabrasil.gov.br/medi...0698T.jpg/view

Santos Dummont invented the "Demoiselle", the first "Open Source"
airplane. As a side note, 20 July is his anniversary too...

P.S.: Sorry for the "engrish"
[]s
--
César A. K. Grossmann

Cesar Grossmann wrote:

Hi!

Today, October 23, 2006, is the 100th anniversary of the first flight
made by Santos Dummont, in Paris, France, with an airplane, the 14-bis.
As part of the commemorations in Brazil, the Brazilian Air Force (FAB)
made a replica of the 14-bis, and flight it in the Sunday, 22 october.



I still think that the thing was flying backwards.
You notice he went over to more conventional designs after that one :-)
La Demoiselle could be rightly considered as the first ultralight aircraft.
The world lost a great and charming man when he committed suicide after
seeing aircraft being used for war in W.W. I.

Pat

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:30:52 -0500, Pat Flannery wrote:

Cesar Grossmann wrote:

Today, October 23, 2006, is the 100th anniversary of the first flight
made by Santos Dummont, in Paris, France, with an airplane, the 14-bis.
As part of the commemorations in Brazil, the Brazilian Air Force (FAB)
made a replica of the 14-bis, and flight it in the Sunday, 22 october.

I still think that the thing was flying backwards.

No kidding. But the design does seem to indicate that he owed a bit
to the Wrights.

I wonder if the modern pilot was able to spend some time in a flight
simulator before he took it up? I suppose it flies very slowly and gives
plenty of time for correction by modern standards, but still....

I have a nice ad here someplace for his book "My Airships", ca. 1909.
I'll dig it up and scan it one of these days.

Dale

Dale wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:30:52 -0500, Pat Flannery wrote:



Cesar Grossmann wrote:





Today, October 23, 2006, is the 100th anniversary of the first flight
made by Santos Dummont, in Paris, France, with an airplane, the 14-bis.
As part of the commemorations in Brazil, the Brazilian Air Force (FAB)
made a replica of the 14-bis, and flight it in the Sunday, 22 october.





I still think that the thing was flying backwards.



No kidding. But the design does seem to indicate that he owed a bit
to the Wrights.



And a box kite :-)

I wonder if the modern pilot was able to spend some time in a flight
simulator before he took it up? I suppose it flies very slowly and gives
plenty of time for correction by modern standards, but still....

I have a nice ad here someplace for his book "My Airships", ca. 1909.
I'll dig it up and scan it one of these days.


IIRC, it was anything but inherently stable, and you were constantly
having to correct its flight path.
He set a speed record with it...of 25 mph. :-)
It was named the 14 Bis because he did test flights with it suspended
under his #14 dirigible before having it takeoff from the ground.

Pat

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:26:20 -0500, Pat Flannery wrote:

IIRC, it was anything but inherently stable, and you were constantly
having to correct its flight path.
He set a speed record with it...of 25 mph. :-)

Jeepers, what did it stall at?

It was named the 14 Bis because he did test flights with it suspended
under his #14 dirigible before having it takeoff from the ground.

That's certainly a modern and prudent approach. I'm curious- Cesar,
if you are reading this, do you know anything about how the FAB pilot
learned to fly it? Your "engrish" is fine

Dale

Dale wrote:

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:26:20 -0500, Pat Flannery wrote:



IIRC, it was anything but inherently stable, and you were constantly
having to correct its flight path.
He set a speed record with it...of 25 mph. :-)



Jeepers, what did it stall at?


That I have no data on; he probably tried to avoid that at all costs, as
it looks like the front structure would have a very good chance of
hitting the ground during a stall.
Here's a guy who took a crack at flying a computer version of it:
http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?...ic=17547&st=10

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:
Dale wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:30:52 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:
Cesar Grossmann wrote:
Today, October 23, 2006, is the 100th anniversary of the first flight
made by Santos Dummont, in Paris, France, with an airplane, the 14-bis.
As part of the commemorations in Brazil, the Brazilian Air Force (FAB)
made a replica of the 14-bis, and flight it in the Sunday, 22 october.

I still think that the thing was flying backwards.

No kidding. But the design does seem to indicate that he owed a bit
to the Wrights.

And a box kite :-)

Probably didn't owe anything to the Wrights. Very little information about
the Wright Brother's achievements reached Europe before 1906, and what
little that did wasn't believed.
Alberto Santos-Dumont, and most of France and the rest of Europe, were
convinced that he had been the fist person to successfully fly a
heavier-than-air aircraft.
This attitude didn't change until Wilbur Wright made his European tour in
1908. After a lot of initial derision, Wilbur's demonstrations with the
Flyer, with much greater controllability and better performance than had
been seen up to that time, was convincing.
Santos-Dumont, a True Gentleman, conceded the honors on the spot, without
rancor.

--
Pete Stickney
Without data, all you have is an opinion

Peter Stickney wrote:

This attitude didn't change until Wilbur Wright made his European tour in
1908. After a lot of initial derision, Wilbur's demonstrations with the
Flyer, with much greater controllability and better performance than had
been seen up to that time, was convincing.
Santos-Dumont, a True Gentleman, conceded the honors on the spot, without
rancor.


I still like the story of the 100,000 franc Henri Deutsch prize for
flying his dirigible #6 around the Eiffel Tower and back.
After three failed attempts, including having the #5 hydrogen-filled
dirigible explode in flight*, he missed the required time mark by forty
seconds, as the prize was for takeoff to touchdown, not crossing the
finish line. But he won the prize anyway....why? Because he was Alberto
Santos-Dumont, and he had _style_...and in France, style is always in
fashion. They didn't give him that prize, and they'd have had a major
riot on their hands.
And it literally almost came to that; the French press went after the
Aero Club that had denied him the prize with the voracity that would
later be seen in Zola's defense of Capt. Dreyfus.
Governments can fall over stuff like this.
He then of course gave the prize money to his mechanics and the poor of
Paris.
Now _that_ is style!
Great man; great man indeed.

*And with his typical luck, ending up with only a few scratches hanging
a hundred feet in the air off the side of the Trocadera Hotel by one of
its barred window frames. On reaching the ground again with the aid of
the firemen of the Passy Fire Station, he promptly credited his
miraculous survival to the medal of St. Benedict given to him by
Brazilian Princess Isabel, Comtesse d'Eu, after his crash into Baron
Rothschild's chestnut tree on his previous attempt at the prize.
Then he asked for a glass of beer, and a large crowd of young
Frenchwomen tried to rip his clothes off for souvenirs.
Henri Deutsch offered him the prize outright in exchange for _not_
trying to win it again after this, fearing the national hero would be
killed in a further attempt. But the gallant Brazilian would of course
have none of that.
When the South American guy with narcolepsy falls through the ceiling in
the movie "Moulin Rouge" I assumed that was going to be Santos-Dumont,
as that would be a typical way of making an entry as one of his
dirigibles crashed.
Now _those_ were the Golden Days of aviation. :-)

Pat

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:05:29 -0400, Peter Stickney
wrote:

Santos-Dumont, a True Gentleman, conceded the honors on the spot, without
rancor.

....Proof he probably wasn't a true Frog after all.

OM
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Dale escreveu:

That's certainly a modern and prudent approach. I'm curious- Cesar,
if you are reading this, do you know anything about how the FAB pilot
learned to fly it? Your "engrish" is fine

I'm doing some research, when I get some answer, I'll post it here.
Even at the FAB page there's no mention to the name of the pilot, or
the "inside history" of the flight of the replica
http://www.fab.mil.br/imprensa/Notic..._esplanada.htm
(in Portuguese)

About the 14-bis, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard

[]s
--
Cesar A. K. Grossmann