Modern Sci-Fi - the enslavement of scientific reality to religious delusion

Uncle Clover wrote:
It can be rather discouraging trying to sift through much that is called
"science fiction" these days. At least if you're a realist. Even that which is
not specified as "science fiction/FANTASY" often contains overabundant use of
the supernatural, for what reason I really can't say.

It seems that one can't even escape the trappings of religious delusion in a
genre that's -supposed- to be devoted to scientific speculation. There is
nothing even remotely scientific about psychic abilities or empathic connections
between dragons and riders. It's all just watered down witch-doctoring
pitifully disguised in the languistic garb of rationality.

Just about any science fiction story you pick up from your average bookseller
will contain at least a -hint- of some underlying supernatural reality -
religious hogwash, in other words. It's really quite annoying when one is
interested in -realistic- scientific speculation.

No psychic phenomenon has ever been scientifically verified on even the remotest
level - no remote viewing, no telepathy, no telekinesis - NONE of it.

Neither had been faster than light travel, teleportation, artificial
intelligence or extraterrestrial life.

If you wanted to be limited to a "verified phenomena", you can write
about builiding a Moon base or expedition to Mars - and thats all.

So why
does such crap keep showing up in "science" fiction?

Because people like to read it?

It's like the brainwashed
religious freaks can't even escape their own past when they've left their
religion behind - they've still got to keep clinging to "something" or another
about their former magical thinking worldview or they'll just simply -explode-.
Or some such. I can see it in stories which fall under "sci-fi/fantasy", but
not just plain "science fiction".

What science fiction stories (sans the "fantasy" qualifier) have you read that
truly seem to deserve the label? Even stories which involve futuristic
technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic.


used to -trick- someone into thinking something "magical" was
happening would be better than those which treat magic alone as though it were
real.

Just curious...
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is when its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
************************************************
"A disappearance is when someone has vanished.
A tragedy is when they were photogenic."
- a.t-c's Bo Raxo, paraphrased.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you look at the whole life of the planet,
man has only been around for a few blinks of an
eye. So if the infection wipes us all out,
that _is_ a return to normality..."
- Sergeant Farrell, "28 Days Later"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

wrote in message
ups.com...
Uncle Clover wrote:


[snip]

No psychic phenomenon has ever been scientifically
verified on even the remotest
level - no remote viewing, no telepathy, no
telekinesis - NONE of it.

Neither had been faster than light travel, teleportation,
artificial
intelligence or extraterrestrial life.

If you wanted to be limited to a "verified phenomena", you
can write
about builiding a Moon base or expedition to Mars - and
thats all.

So why
does such crap keep showing up in "science" fiction?

Because people like to read it?

It's like the brainwashed
religious freaks can't even escape their own past when
they've left their
religion behind - they've still got to keep clinging to
"something" or another
about their former magical thinking worldview or they'll
just simply -explode-.
Or some such. I can see it in stories which fall under
"sci-fi/fantasy", but
not just plain "science fiction".

What science fiction stories (sans the "fantasy"
qualifier) have you read that
truly seem to deserve the label? Even stories which
involve futuristic
technology


Much of A.C. Clarke (viz. the space elevator book.) Most of
the old Hal Clement stuff (viz. Mission of Gravity etc.)
Thas'all I can think of at the moment...
....tonyC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from
magic.


used to -trick- someone into thinking something "magical"
was
happening would be better than those which treat magic
alone as though it were
real.

Just curious...
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is when its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
************************************************
"A disappearance is when someone has vanished.
A tragedy is when they were photogenic."
- a.t-c's Bo Raxo, paraphrased.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you look at the whole life of the planet,
man has only been around for a few blinks of an
eye. So if the infection wipes us all out,
that _is_ a return to normality..."
- Sergeant Farrell, "28 Days Later"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

wrote:

If you wanted to be limited to a "verified phenomena", you can write
about builiding a Moon base or expedition to Mars - and thats all.

Maybe we could define subgenres in terms of what you can't write about.
For instance, the
non-vampire subgenre, the non-telepathy subgenre, the non-FLT subgenre,
and so forth.

Gene Ward Smith wrote:

Maybe we could define subgenres in terms of what you can't write about.
For instance, the
non-vampire subgenre, the non-telepathy subgenre, the non-FLT subgenre,
and so forth.

I particularly like that last one. It cuts out a huge percentage of the
sci.math cranks.

--
Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM, Y!M erikmaxfrancis
But you're not going to be there tomorrow. And it's all about
tomorrow. -- Montgomery Brogan

Erik Max Francis wrote:
Gene Ward Smith wrote:

Maybe we could define subgenres in terms of what you can't write about.
For instance, the
non-vampire subgenre, the non-telepathy subgenre, the non-FLT subgenre,
and so forth.

I particularly like that last one. It cuts out a huge percentage of the
sci.math cranks.

Not to mention Star Trek.

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
Erik Max Francis wrote:

Gene Ward Smith wrote:


Maybe we could define subgenres in terms of what you can't write about.
For instance, the
non-vampire subgenre, the non-telepathy subgenre, the non-FLT subgenre,
and so forth.

I particularly like that last one. It cuts out a huge percentage of the
sci.math cranks.


Not to mention Star Trek.


I don't recall Star Trek having anything involving Fermat's Last
Theorem.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

Sea Wasp wrote:

I don't recall Star Trek having anything involving Fermat's Last
Theorem.

As they say, Google is your friend:

The Royale

In this episode, Picard is studying Fermat's Great Theorem, and says it
has remained unsolved for 800 years. Five years after the episode was
made the theorem was actually solved, by Andrew Wiles and Richard
Taylor from Princeton University. In the Star Trek universe, this was
referred to in an episode of Deep Space Nine, and is considered as a
subtle correction for Picard's statements.

When I saw this episode, I yelled at the screen that everyone knows
that Fermat had been proven in the 21st century. So, I was wrong also.
My reasoning was that Ribet had very recently proven that
Taniyama-Shimura implies Fermat, and I thought sometime in the 21st
century Taniyama-Shimura was likely to be proven. It didn't seem like
1987 was a very good year to commit to the proposition that Fermat was
still going to be open by Picard's day, though I doubt very much anyone
connected with the show knew of Ribet's work, which was not yet
published.

wrote:


No psychic phenomenon has ever been scientifically verified on even the remotest
level - no remote viewing, no telepathy, no telekinesis - NONE of it.

Neither had been faster than light travel, teleportation, artificial
intelligence or extraterrestrial life.

If you wanted to be limited to a "verified phenomena", you can write
about builiding a Moon base or expedition to Mars - and thats all.


Quibble he there are rather strong scientific/laws of physics
reasons for dismissing psychic phenomena, teleportation, and FTL
travel.

For extraterrestrial life, we have only a _statistical_ argument: we
haven't seen any so far. And it's a weak one for non-sentient life.
(After all, _we_ exist, so there is at least some probabilty of life
arising elsewhere, unless you're a creationist).

We don't even have a statistical argument against artificial
intelligence, since we don't have any other history of science than our
own. You can certainly argue artificial intelligence is hard to do -
there's plenty of evidence in that direction - but that it is "magical
thinking" strikes me as dubious unless you think there's something
supernatural about the human brain or that technological advancement is
going to stop dead aaaany day now.

Bruce

Gene Ward Smith wrote:

It didn't seem like
1987 was a very good year to commit to the proposition that Fermat was
still going to be open by Picard's day, though I doubt very much anyone
connected with the show knew of Ribet's work, which was not yet
published.

Betting on anyone connected with the show pretty much knowing much of
anything is probably a bad idea.

--
Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM, Y!M erikmaxfrancis
When in doubt, win the trick.
-- Edmund Hoyle

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
When I saw this episode, I yelled at the screen that everyone knows
that Fermat had been proven in the 21st century. So, I was wrong also.
My reasoning was that Ribet had very recently proven that
Taniyama-Shimura implies Fermat, and I thought sometime in the 21st
century Taniyama-Shimura was likely to be proven. It didn't seem like
1987 was a very good year to commit to the proposition that Fermat was
still going to be open by Picard's day, though I doubt very much anyone
connected with the show knew of Ribet's work, which was not yet
published.

Well, you were wrong about "everyone knows" in 1987. I think that they
did check details like this, didn't they? Absent Google, they would
phone someone who should know. Just to make sure it hadn't /been/
proved.

Now I'm not sure if UK TV has yet shown the story where Data explains
that Britain conceded the War Against Terrorism to the IRA in 2030 or
something. This while the Enterprise apparently is fighting Irish
terrorists in space who have kidnapped Dr. Crusher, or was it Dr.
Pulaski. Well, there's still time for that one.