![]() |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
As we've seen over the last week, the planetary taxonomy adopted by
the International Astronomical Union (IAU) on 24 August 2006 has at once drawn the world's attention to an exciting new perspective on our solar system, and highlighted a question continuing to provoke lively debate: "Is a dwarf planet to be regarded as a planet?" Happily, there is a taxonomic device, familiar in the biological sciences, which permits us to grant diplomatic recognition, as it were, to both sides of the question, each of which has its attractions. For an astronomer such as Gibor Basri as well as a layperson like myself, it seems natural to regard the "dwarf" of "dwarf planet" as an adjective -- much as with "dwarf star." In this view, the term "planet" has an encompassing sense including both the eight major planets and the growing number of known dwarf planets such as Pluto, Ceres, Charon, and UB313 or Xena. Dwarf planets, as Gibor has suggested, might also be known informally by the charming name of "beltway planets" -- in contrast to the dynamically dominant or orbit-clearing major planets. However, last week's IAU vote has confirmed the demand also for a narrower sense of "planet" limited to the orbit-clearing major planets. In this view, now that the "nine major planets" model dating back to Pluto's discovery in 1930 is no longer tenable, one should be able to use the familiar word "planet" for these eight dynamically dominant bodies without also including what may soon amount to dozens of known dwarf planets. Supporters of the current IAU definition evidently treating "planets" and "dwarf planets" as mutually exclusive categories can thus champion it as a powerful engine for tidying up the conceptual orbit of solar system astronomy. Fortunately, astronomy can borrow from the life sciences a device neatly accommodating both views: the distinction between the use of the term "planet" _sensu stricto_ or "narrowly speaking" to mean only the eight major or orbit-clearing planets; or _sensu lato_ or "broadly speaking" to include dwarf planets also. Thus I would urge that the recent IAU decision doesn't need to be "reversed," but only refined or tweaked a bit to recognize both the stricter and the more relaxed usage as legitimate alternatives. Of course, revisions for consideration by the IAU in 2009 might address not only this one point, but also, for example, expanding the scope of current definitions to include extrasolar planets. However, a quick draft might illustrate the "diplomatic solution" I'm proposing. -------------------- Here is a first draft for a minimal revision which might serve as a compromise between the adopted Resolution 5A (evidently treating "planets" and "dwarf planets" as mutually exclusive categories) and the defeated Resolution 5B (recognizing "classical planets" and "dwarf planets" with the implication that both are types of planets). Curly braces { } are used to show text added to the current definitions adopted in Resolution 5A. A footnote is added specifying that in a more relaxed usage the term "planet" includes both major planets and dwarf planets, so that original note 3 becomes note 4. Incidentally, I suspect that the word "and" in IAU note 2 should read "or" ("either dwarf planet and other categories"), but have left this note unchanged. * * * Proposed Revision of Current IAU Position The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System be defined into three distinct categories in the following way: (1) A {major} planet {or planet _sensu stricto_}[1] is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit. (2) A dwarf planet is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape[2], (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.{[3]} (3) All other objects[4] orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar System Bodies". ___________________________________ 1. The eight {major} planets a Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. {In a stricter or narrower usage, these are the only solar planets.} 2. An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories. {3. In a broader or more relaxed usage, _sensu lato_, the term "planet" includes dwarf planets as well as major planets.} 4. These currently include most of the Solar System asteroids, most Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), comets, and other small bodies. * * * Most appreciatively, Margo Schulter |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
In article ,
Margo Schulter wrote: As we've seen over the last week, the planetary taxonomy adopted by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) on 24 August 2006 has at once drawn the world's attention to an exciting new perspective on our solar system, and highlighted a question continuing to provoke lively debate: "Is a dwarf planet to be regarded as a planet?" Happily, there is a taxonomic device, familiar in the biological sciences, which permits us to grant diplomatic recognition, as it were, to both sides of the question, each of which has its attractions. For an astronomer such as Gibor Basri as well as a layperson like myself, it seems natural to regard the "dwarf" of "dwarf planet" as an adjective -- much as with "dwarf star." If "star" is defined as a "natural body with thermonuclear reactions as its energy source", then a white dwarf isn't a star, because thermonuclear reactions have ceased in a white dwarf. They are former stars...... now, does this make white dwarfs "planets"? g In this view, the term "planet" has an encompassing sense including both the eight major planets and the growing number of known dwarf planets such as Pluto, Ceres, Charon, and UB313 or Xena. Dwarf planets, as Gibor has suggested, might also be known informally by the charming name of "beltway planets" -- in contrast to the dynamically dominant or orbit-clearing major planets. However, last week's IAU vote has confirmed the demand also for a narrower sense of "planet" limited to the orbit-clearing major planets. In this view, now that the "nine major planets" model dating back to Pluto's discovery in 1930 is no longer tenable, one should be able to use the familiar word "planet" for these eight dynamically dominant bodies without also including what may soon amount to dozens of known dwarf planets. Supporters of the current IAU definition evidently treating "planets" and "dwarf planets" as mutually exclusive categories can thus champion it as a powerful engine for tidying up the conceptual orbit of solar system astronomy. Fortunately, astronomy can borrow from the life sciences a device neatly accommodating both views: the distinction between the use of the term "planet" _sensu stricto_ or "narrowly speaking" to mean only the eight major or orbit-clearing planets; or _sensu lato_ or "broadly speaking" to include dwarf planets also. Thus I would urge that the recent IAU decision doesn't need to be "reversed," but only refined or tweaked a bit to recognize both the stricter and the more relaxed usage as legitimate alternatives. Of course, revisions for consideration by the IAU in 2009 might address not only this one point, but also, for example, expanding the scope of current definitions to include extrasolar planets. However, a quick draft might illustrate the "diplomatic solution" I'm proposing. -------------------- Here is a first draft for a minimal revision which might serve as a compromise between the adopted Resolution 5A (evidently treating "planets" and "dwarf planets" as mutually exclusive categories) and the defeated Resolution 5B (recognizing "classical planets" and "dwarf planets" with the implication that both are types of planets). Curly braces { } are used to show text added to the current definitions adopted in Resolution 5A. A footnote is added specifying that in a more relaxed usage the term "planet" includes both major planets and dwarf planets, so that original note 3 becomes note 4. Incidentally, I suspect that the word "and" in IAU note 2 should read "or" ("either dwarf planet and other categories"), but have left this note unchanged. * * * Proposed Revision of Current IAU Position The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System be defined into three distinct categories in the following way: (1) A {major} planet {or planet _sensu stricto_}[1] is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit. (2) A dwarf planet is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape[2], (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.{[3]} (3) All other objects[4] orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar System Bodies". ___________________________________ 1. The eight {major} planets a Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. {In a stricter or narrower usage, these are the only solar planets.} 2. An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories. {3. In a broader or more relaxed usage, _sensu lato_, the term "planet" includes dwarf planets as well as major planets.} 4. These currently include most of the Solar System asteroids, most Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), comets, and other small bodies. * * * Most appreciatively, Margo Schulter -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "Paul Schlyter" wrote in message ... In article , Margo Schulter wrote: As we've seen over the last week, the planetary taxonomy adopted by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) on 24 August 2006 has at once drawn the world's attention to an exciting new perspective on our solar system, and highlighted a question continuing to provoke lively debate: "Is a dwarf planet to be regarded as a planet?" Happily, there is a taxonomic device, familiar in the biological sciences, which permits us to grant diplomatic recognition, as it were, to both sides of the question, each of which has its attractions. For an astronomer such as Gibor Basri as well as a layperson like myself, it seems natural to regard the "dwarf" of "dwarf planet" as an adjective -- much as with "dwarf star." If "star" is defined as a "natural body with thermonuclear reactions as its energy source", then a white dwarf isn't a star, because thermonuclear reactions have ceased in a white dwarf. They are former stars...... now, does this make white dwarfs "planets"? g According to this, no: http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.ia...602/index.html A planet must be "in orbit around the Sun". Even if the dwarf were part of a binary with another main sequence star, it would be a planet, just as "extra-solar planets" are no longer planets! Hmmm, is that really the version that was adopted? George |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
George Dishman wrote:
According to this, no: http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.ia...602/index.html A planet must be "in orbit around the Sun". Even if the dwarf were part of a binary with another main sequence star, it would be a planet, just as "extra-solar planets" are no longer planets! Hello, there, and while I'm not sure about the first part of your statement (may we could clarify this binary star situation you raise), I think that I can clarify the second point concerning "extra-solar planets." Actually IAU Resolution 5A restricts its domain to classifying objects in our own solar system; the question of defining planets elsewhere is simply left unaddressed, and likely reserved for a future meeting (the next one in Rio, 2009). Thus the resolution doesn't directly affect the status of any extra-solar planet, much less remove its planethood, which is simply left officially unaddressed. It's a bit like the situation in the USA where each of the 50 States might have its own legislation about how towns or municipalities should be organized. If New York passes legislation defining a "city" in that State, it doesn't mean that there are no cities in the State of Massachusetts, or that what clearly seem cities there are no longer in that category. We can debate whether the IAU was wise to adopt a planetary taxonomy for objects in our own solar system only, as well as the wisdom of its specific conclusions. However, I would emphasize that extra-solar planets are just as much planets as they were on August 23, the day before the resolution was adopted. Hmmm, is that really the version that was adopted? In my post in this thread I include a proposal giving the text of the adopted version plus some suggested changes so that people can "correctly" refer to a dwarf planet as "a planet broadly speaking" in a more relaxed usage. Otherwise the text is as in the official version, and a vital point is that they are dividing objects in _our_ solar system into three main categories, reserving other solar systems for consideration another time. Within our solar system, the only domain being considered in this resolution, the "in orbit around the Sun" might mean something that isn't a free-floating "planet mass object" or "planemo" for short as Gibor Basri calls it just drifting through interstellar space that happens to pass near the Sun; or a satellite in orbit arounnd some body in our solar system other than the Sun (e.g. a moon). At least that's how I'd interpret it. If it's in orbit around a star other than our Sun, then it's simply "off the radar screen" for the purpose of this resolution -- and has the same status (not yet officially defined) that it did before the resolution. George Most respectfully, Margo Schulter |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]() "Margo Schulter" wrote in message ... George Dishman wrote: According to this, no: http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.ia...602/index.html A planet must be "in orbit around the Sun". Even if the dwarf were part of a binary with another main sequence star, it would be a planet, just as "extra-solar planets" are no longer planets! Hello, there, and while I'm not sure about the first part of your statement (may we could clarify this binary star situation you raise), .. At some point there needs to be a dividing line drawn between a binary system and a star with a planetary system. Based on your other posts, I would say the latter is easy, it is one in which only one object reaches the point of fusion. If more than one achieves that then it is a binary star system, possibly also including planets and other debris. If none reaches fusion it could be harder for the case of systems where no one body dominates. You get free-floating double planetary systems I suppose. I think that I can clarify the second point concerning "extra-solar planets." Actually IAU Resolution 5A restricts its domain to classifying objects in our own solar system; the question of defining planets elsewhere is simply left unaddressed, and likely reserved for a future meeting (the next one in Rio, 2009). Well that may be the idea but the outcome has been to produce a definition of the word "planet" that should find its way into most good dictionaries. The idea that an object identical to Earth but around another star identical to the Sun might not be a planet (but we haven't decided yet) is not one that is going to be treated with any respect. The actual text says this: "Contemporary observations are changing our understanding of planetary systems, and it is important that our nomenclature for objects reflect our current understanding. This applies, in particular, to the designation 'planets'. The word "planet" originally described "wanderers" that were known only as moving lights in the sky. Recent discoveries lead us to create a new definition, which we can make using currently available scientific information." Note in particular "Recent discoveries lead us to create a new definition" for the "designation 'planets'." That is not restricted to the solar system but states it is a definition of the word. It goes on "The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System, except satellites, be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:" so there are only three categories of planets and all reside in our solar system. There is a note saying "An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories." but I see nothing whatsoever on the page to say that this definition is not applicable to objects outside the solar ystem or that it will be further considered in 2009. Thus the resolution doesn't directly affect the status of any extra-solar planet, much less remove its planethood, which is simply left officially unaddressed. Sorry, that isn't the case according to the page I cited. That's why I asked if this was merely one of the drafts and the final resolution corrected these problems. Replacing "the Sun" by "a star" would have resolved that problem (with perhaps a footnote regarding binary systems etc.). We can debate whether the IAU was wise to adopt a planetary taxonomy for objects in our own solar system only, as well as the wisdom of its specific conclusions. However, I would emphasize that extra-solar planets are just as much planets as they were on August 23, the day before the resolution was adopted. While your interpretation may seem resonable, it is not the resolution that was passed. Hmmm, is that really the version that was adopted? In my post in this thread I include a proposal giving the text of the adopted version plus some suggested changes .. Tough luck, the meetings have finished and the resolutions passed. I'm sure a lot of other people have alternative views too, but then the whole point of the process is to reach a consensus that is at some level acceptable to the majority and after that we are all stuck with it. I don't intend to stop considering extra-solar planets to be planets but that appears to be the official result. George |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]() George Dishman replied to Margo Schulter: "The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System, except satellites, be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:" so there are only three categories of planets and all reside in our solar system. To me, the passage you quoted unambiguously says that the definition applies only to planets and other bodies in the Solar System, and says nothing about planets and other bodies outside the Solar System. If you interpret the statement to mean that things outside the Solar System are not "planets" under the definition, then do you also interpret it to mean that things outside the Solar System are not "other bodies"? There is a note saying "An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories." but I see nothing whatsoever on the page to say that this definition is not applicable to objects outside the solar system or that it will be further considered in 2009. The first passage you quoted clearly says that the definition is applicable to "planets and other bodies in our Solar System". It says nothing about planets or other bodies outside the Solar System. -- Jeff, in Minneapolis |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
George Dishman wrote:
At some point there needs to be a dividing line drawn between a binary system and a star with a planetary system. Based on your other posts, I would say the latter is easy, it is one in which only one object reaches the point of fusion. If more than one achieves that then it is a binary star system, possibly also including planets and other debris. Thank you, George, for the clarification, and we're in agreement here. If none reaches fusion it could be harder for the case of systems where no one body dominates. You get free-floating double planetary systems I suppose. This raises an interesting situation which I'm not sure I've seen specifically mentioned in the papers I've read so far on planetary definition. However, it might be a nice kind of problem to illustrate the difference between focusing solely or mostly on the "characteristics" of an object (here two non-fusors, maybe on the "superplanet" extreme of the spectrum, say 2-13 Jupiter masses), and also considering "circumstances" (here that neither body is orbiting a fusor). If we follow Basri, each would be a "planemo" or "planetary mass object," but under a circumstantial definition of a planet as a planemo _orbiting a fusor_, neither would qualify as a "planet." A more purely "characteristics-oriented approach" would say that they're both non-fusors with sufficient mass to result in near-sphericity or rounding -- and therefore planemos -- and that any planemo should be regarded as a planet, too. Thus we indeed have a "free-floating binary planemo system"; and also also a "double planetary system," as you have suggested, if we do not require that a planet orbit a fusor. Anyway, that's my first take on this. Most appreciatively, Margo Schulter |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Paul Schlyter wrote:
If "star" is defined as a "natural body with thermonuclear reactions as its energy source", then a white dwarf isn't a star, because thermonuclear reactions have ceased in a white dwarf. They are former stars...... now, does this make white dwarfs "planets"? g Hello, and thank you for raising a possibly jovial question which reminds us that the IAU has yet to address the more general question of defining a "planet" in terms that can apply to objects outside our own solar system, to which the scope of the current definition is restricted. I understand that a simple answer to your question is that a "star" -- or possibly a bit more broadly a "fusor" (including brown dwarfs) -- is any natural body which at any point in its life history has sufficient mass to initiate nuclear fusion. Obviously a white dwarf has met this test. A planet could be defined as, among other things, a "non-fusor" at all points in its life history. That would set an upper limit of about 13 Jupiter masses -- although 75 or so are required to produce a main sequence star. The intermediate range is the realm of fascinating objects called "brown dwarfs" -- fusors under this definition, and thus not planets. This raises the taxonomic issue of whether a brown dwarf is a special kind of star ("star = fusor") or a distinct category from either "star" or "planet." Getting back to the main white dwarf question, we know that a white dwarf has had a very different history than a planet which in a standard scenario grows by accretion from planetesimals and at no point attains enough mass to become a fusor. Thus at least to a certain degree, cosmogony and history do play a role in these definitions. Anyway, thank you for a question which gives me a chance to see how well I understand some of these concepts. Most respectfully, Margo Schulter |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]() (2) A dwarf planet is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape[2], (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.{[3]} Sounds good to me, though we still need to quibble about what 'mostly round' means... at some level everything is nonspherical. My first pass: The difference between the high and low point should be under X% of the rotation-adjusted radius, and then we can debate what X should be. 5 may disallow Ceres but 10 probably permits it, and I see no real a priori reason to favor any particular value.... set X=.1 and we even rule out Earth. So we're still confused, but on a deeper level 8) |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Planetary Society Opens World's First Dedicated Optical SETI Telescope(Forwarded) | Andrew Yee | Astronomy Misc | 0 | April 12th 06 12:57 PM |
Planetary Society Opens World's First Dedicated Optical SETI Telescope(Forwarded) | Andrew Yee | News | 0 | April 12th 06 12:28 PM |
Comet Dust Clouds Planetary Society Crater Contest (Deep Impact) | baalke@earthlink.net | News | 0 | January 28th 06 01:09 AM |
Nuclear-Powered Mission to Neptune Could Answer Questions About Planetary Formation | baalke@earthlink.net | Astronomy Misc | 2 | December 10th 04 03:19 PM |
A new astronomical solution for the calibration of a geological timescale (Forwarded) | Andrew Yee | Astronomy Misc | 0 | October 26th 04 05:38 AM |