Venus EXPRESS is alive, as is the planet and Guth Venus

Wouldn't you just know it, that the first of those Venus EXPRESS 6
composite images as having been officially processed for delivering to
us village idiots as sharing in the most eye-candy, and otherwise
contributed for our investigative pleasure, whereas thus far such images
are showing us a semi-thermal gradient ratio of .075 to 0.5, as
representing a 6.67:1 ratio from the fully solar illuminated side to
those significant portions of the nighttime atmospheric season as being
considerably cooler. Actually, some of the coolest zones are not worth
0.05, thus we're talking nearly 10:1 as being the maximum differential,
that which doesn't surprise myself one bit.

It's the horrific thermal transitions from daytime to tighttime and of
those terrific polar vortex patterns that are the most reveiling.

In addition to whatever's of an unavoidably extra toasty atmospheric
season of daytime, as false colour depicted and as otherwise fully
expected, it seems the much cooler nighttime season is covering a
considerably greater percentage of that atmospheric environment by
something near 15%, with a great deal of thermal energy extraction
that's obviously taking place at the poles. Since these images are a
composite of UV through near-IR is perhaps why there's no specific
thermal gradient involved, other than the afforded by the observed
differential that's as great as 10:1, as roughly based upon the graphic
scale included with each image. The actual thermal range of
daytime/nighttime differentials will likely soon follow, unless FW
Taylor or that of our own NSA/NASA desides otherwise.

http://www.esa.int/esa-mmg/mmg.pl?b=...nus%20Express&...
"The images (taken at 5 microns) were obtained at six different time
slots and different distances from Venus (top left: 12 April, from 210
000 kilometres; top cent 13 April, from 280 000 kilometres; top
right: 14 April, from 315 000 kilometres; bottom left:16 April, from 315
000 kilometres; bottom cent 17 April, from 270 000 kilometres; bottom
right: 19 April, from 190 000 kilometres), while the spacecraft moved
along a long ellipse around the planet. The separate images can be
downloaded here [ COB_01_geo.TIF, COB_02_geo.TIF, COB_03_geo.TIF,
COB_04_geo.TIF, COB_05_geo.TIF, COB_06_geo.TIF]."

BTW; there is also an interesting little conflicting item of less than
one degree in scope, that's seemingly operating as though above the
daytime cloud layer of that planet, that's depicted as somehow being
much cooler than the surrounding atmosphere, as well as being much too
large for any artificial satellite that we could possibly have
accomplished. It's existing as though operating just above the equator
and near the 20 degree mark. Because it's within 6 out of 6 images, as
such I'd rather doubt that it's of any imaging glitch.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

I'm one of those persistent village idiots (AKA messenger from hell)
that's expecting to see new and improved science about Venus, as
extensively being that of a geothermally impacted environment, with the
secondary affects being that of the atmospheric conditions keeping the
lid on much of that geothermal energy, plus unavoidably having to deal
with the solar energy influx that's as great as 2650 watts/m2 as a
contributing factor to the toasty situation. I'm also expecting to see
the differential of the day/night energy balance as being in favor of
having allowed more of that geothermal energy to escape than not,
thereby allowing for the gradual planetology cooling process of such a
newish planet that's of a newer study than previously thought possible.

Long before Venus EXPRESS, other's including those within team KECK had
speculated as to a significant energy imbalance, even having imaged the
rather extensive layer of oxygen that covers a significant portion of
the nighttime season, giving proper indications as to allowing for the
cooling of Venus, which means that either Venus is in fact a relatively
newish planet that our solar system had somewhar recently acquired, or
that it's a recovering planet from having been seriously impacted by
some of the heaviest of meteor/asteroid substances, with a remote third
possibility of there being something thermal nuclear involved.

It is highly probable that Venus is the best ever gold mine or otherwise
motherload of minerals and rare elements that are being made so easily
accessible and otherwise kept safely available as cloaked by the mostly
clean and obviously toasty dry CO2 layers of such a very buoyant and
protective atmosphere that's worth 4.8e20 kg for just the firt 16 km.
As such nearly Earth sized planets go, the access to/from that nighttime
surface is by far the least technically challenging (meaning that it's
much easier than having to accomplish a similar task upon Earth), and
you certainly don't have to pack along much if any spare energy for the
task of sustaining such operations, of processing whatever and the
exporting of various products or substances.

Just by having such locally available resources of energy and that of an
environment that's so well shielded against solar and cosmic radiation
alone is simply offering the best possible news of what any such
accessible and nearby planet can offer, although with a 0.905 gravity
factor and having 65+kg/m3 of buoyancy to work with is certainly
providing an extra thick amount of icing on the cake.

Anytime you've got less gravity and a thicker atmosphere to work with,
as such it's technically a win-win situation for getting whatever
to/from that planet.

Anytime you don't have to pack along large amounts of physical shielding
is obviously going to be another positive mission consideration that's
worth a whole lot more than most critics are willing to admit.

Anytime the local environment can provide such clean megajoules,
gigajoules and even if need be terajoules of spare and renewable energy
(that's everywhere to behold none the less), is an absolute multiple
win-win on behalf of just about everything imaginable.

If there's any ongoing question(s) as to what's a seriously big mystery,
is that it's certainly not being well enough understood nor obviously
having been appreciated as to why or how visiting ETs or locals couldn't
have made a go of it, as you'd have to be an absolute heathen of a
dumbfounded moron to not have taken advantage of whatever's so easily
available.

This isn't to say that for our doing Venus is not a technically
demanding quest, especially if to be insisting upon our someday going
there in person is obviously adding loads of complex insults to whatever
injury of whatever robotics would require. However, with local energy
already being there to behold, as such there's almost nothing that can
not be surmounted on behalf of accommodating our frail bodies, that
obviously can not take the heat (especially by the season of daytime or
anywhere within active volcanic mud/lava flows should remain as taboo),
but otherwise we can get ourselves adapted to that pressure. With an
implanted sinus shunt for improved intra cranial pressure (ICP)
equalizing, it's entirely possible as to adapt ourselves to the changes
in elevation pressure that's worth as much as 4+ bar/km. Converting
CO2--CO/O2 is just a matter of applying the local energy for
accomplishing that task (at that great amount of pressure our biological
need for O2 might drop to 1% if the remainder can be composed of H2).

Accessing and thus extracting pure h2o from those relatively cool acidic
nighttime clouds is simply another matter of applied physics and
utilizing well proven science, although surface mud flows should also
provide a viable resource of h2o, although perhaps bringing along a few
spare tonnes of ice cold beer as our h2o might not be such a bad idea
for the first effort.

Of course, as already taking place (including the ongoing efforts to
terminate my PC), you'll unavoidably take notice as to the usual
topic/author stalking, bashings and if possible the efforts of
banishment upon any honest topic that's related to the truths about
planets and moons (especially that include Earth and of our moon), as
being their Usenet status quo norm or mainstream intent to foil or bust
criteria that's typically focused upon being as anti-ET and as
anti-truth as these folks can manage. The trick is to pay as little or
no attention to their obvious levels of incest mindset that only goes to
prove, of what others and I have had to offer is worth their attention.

In spite of all the ongoing flak; Would the rest of you folks like to
discuss the positive and thus constructive possibilities, rather than
join their gauntlet of flak tossing that's doing all that it can in
order to suppress or if possible to terminate whatever rocks thy boat?
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

It looks as though Venus EXPRESS and of the ESA team of expertise that's
encharge is coming through with absolutely terrific thermal imaging
results, which of course means absolutely nothing to the mainstream
status quo of what our NASA has at it's disinformation disposal, of
their all-knowing wizards and rusemasters that obviously don't want
others looking and/or much less interpreting upon much of anything that
hasn't been moderated to death by whatever our NASA thinks is best.

Perhaps that's only because of their physically obstructive view of just
about everything:
by Ed Conrad; EXCLUSIVE PHOTO -- FIRST MAN IN THE MOON
http://www.edconrad.com/ebay/SimplyMagic/TightFit.jpg

Such as the folloing NASA e-MIB of an incest cloned borg, of an obvious
e-spook of a cloak and dagger Usenet agent that's encharge of hype, spin
and wag-thy-dog worth of damage-control, and as often as possible for
excluding evidence and otherwise replacing facts with whatever's their
one and only NASA koran certified version of infomercial-science.
Art Deco; Brad still doesn't have a clue what color temperature is, I see.

In spite of such official efforts by those working on behalf of our
NSA/NASA, at this initial investigative point we simply don't actually
need to understand the exact thermal gradient as to the starting
temperature, whereas whatever's at this moment hot is simply hot, or
rather it's of whatever the image calibration or gradient was
established in order to best accomplish the given image, and thereby
that ratio of being as much as 10:1 cooler by season of nighttime is
obviously representing of a much cooler nighttime atmospheric
environment for the given penetration of clouds as thus far being
accomplished. Obviously eventually the Venus EXPRESS team is going to
extensively nail down within a few +/- K of whatever that Venusian
atmosphere and perhaps even a touch better science as to what the
geothermal nighttime surface has to offer at various surface elevations.

Unlike the typical motives and ulterior agenda of this mostly naysay
and/or anti-think-tank Usenet, of what NASA's e-spooks and e-moles
intend to accomplish in spite of the facts, I'll most likely accept
whatever the ESA Venus Express team has to offer. At least their best
efforts are not nearly as SWAG or otherwise skewed from the nearest
space-toilet, as rather based upon all of their new and improved thermal
imaging science, as currently being obtained that will also not have to
become of some Jewish perverted and/or other collective religious
mindset that so often goes by the collective Usenet name "Art Deco". At
least ESA's science is that of having thus far honestly contributed
their science, even if it's having been nearly 3 months delayed is still
a whole lot better off than anything we've had otherwise to work with.

We know from previous science as of October 1991 to expect an upper
cloud deck and haze layer of 70~80 km as having a temperature of perhaps
200~230 K by day, and perhaps merely 225~245 K at the bottom layer of
them cool clouds. Of course such thick and acidic clouds do manage to
vary in their altitude from day to night, and we've been informed as of
previous obtained science that at roughly 60~70 km is where a good
portion of these clouds are really on the retrograde move.

Too bad that as per the 'Art Deco' intellectual incest of disinformation
and via their infomercial-science usual, and from within their mutated
naysayism mindset can't seem to constructively contribute all that much
of anything, except loads more of their usual status quo flak.

Obviously from the visual illumination spectrum of differentials between
the daytime of what's receiving 2650 w/m2 as opposed to the much cooler
(sub-frozen) upper atmosphere of that Venus nighttime season, as having
to make do with the nearly zilch worth of other than
starshine/earthshine, offering perhaps as great as -16 db of their
visual CCD DR representing 65,535:1 is not of what counts, whereas the
initial IR thermal ratio of roughly 10:1 is by far of the most
importance. Within additional orbits and of applied spectrum filters
should eventually refine that thermal imaging down to obtaining
something within a +/- 5 K resolution per pixel, and hopefully of that
eventual PFS effort should obtain much greater depth in the far-IR
spectrum that should eventually start to depict as to a bit of what that
geothermally active surface has to offer.

http://www.esa.int/esa-mmg/mmg.pl?b=...le=y &start=5
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

The fact that Venus is very much geologically or rather planetology
newish and geothermally alive and kicking, and for the most part w/o
solar/cosmic Sv to worry about, is yet another positive consideration on
behalf of something intelligent that may only seem too good to be true,
but I honestly believe it is.

The moon is hot and Venmus is not, is simply no lie, much less of any
ruse.

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/re...=smart&p=1/440

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.o...b379d00c7bb5a7

This next part is only a wee bit off-topic, but otherwise fully related
to the task of our accomplishing Venus instead of that nasty moon of
ours or that of other planets.

As for taking the somewhat conservative review at those moon radiation
numbers, as to be excluding upon all of whatever's derived via locally
radioactive elements as having been touted as offering better than twice
that of our terrestrial geophysical background dosage, and of excluding
whatever else our sun has to contribute, whereas just accounting for the
cosmic rays of one count/cm2/sec = 10,000 hits/m2/sec is what at first
seems almost wussy.

However, even though this incoming rate of 36e6 hits per m2/hr may still
not sound like all that much to fret over (especially pointless if you
can't accomplish basic math), that is until you reconsider that each and
every unfortunate moonsuit soul on that naked moon of our's is going to
be unavoidably surrounded by at least 3.14e6 m2 of a
reactive/anticathode lunar terrain, as well as for having next to
nothing of any atmospheric density between yourself and each of those
unavoidably reactive/anticathode square meters, much less intended as
for spending mere seconds on that physically dark and nasty surface,
whereas more than likely we're talking hours if not expecting to somehow
survive days on end without ever involving their banked bone marrow as
plan-B (I can honestly say; good luck with that).

Having to survive sufficiently unscaved from within such a demanding
moonsuit/EVA of such thermal and physical impact worthy extremes, and of
the otherwise downright lethal environment, of such a multiple Sv-hot
zone that's continually keeping yourself within the local zone of that
full and lethal gauntlet of those 113e12 hits(36e6 * 3.14e6) of cosmic
rays per hour is of no simple solution, much less has our NASA or anyone
other offered a viable plan of action that'll prevent your DNA from
getting summarily nailed but good. Add in those raw solar illuminated
and of the invisible spectrum forms of solar energy and thereby
unavoidable Sv influx, that at times goes entirely off their satellite
Sv instrument monitoring scale (as having recently fully saturated their
radiation detection methods), plus tossing in a little of whatever's
locally of radioactive elements and lo and behold, within at best hours
if not minutes you're soon going to become a dead astronaut walking, as
having been a sitting duck in a worse than microwave oven that even that
cash of banked bone marrow may not constitute sufficient insurance.

So, just going by the continual influx of cosmic rays alone is where
you'd be subjected to a TBI(total body irradiation) dosage environment
of whatever those available 113e12 hits/hr can manage to contribute,
plus enjoying those various and unavoidable secondary/recoil rays of the
mostly lethal kind as an ongoing threat coming from each and every
second of essentially a naked moonsuit exposure. Of course you'd also
be getting a little direct one on one personal cosmic impact dosage, at
the very least 1e4 cosmic rays as arriving from nearly all directions
per each and every second, or 36e6 personal hits throughout your body
per hr, plus your having to deal with whatever's locally radioactive as
obtained from all of those nearby 3.14e6 m2 off what's typically half
again more anticathode dense than aluminum, and once that sun comes up
is when you'd certainly be entitled to the direct and secondary/recoil
of solar induced dosage from whatever our raw solar influx has to offer
in the way of incoming soft-gamma as well as for the direct influx plus
secondary/recoil birth of hard-X-rays, plus there's whatever else that's
physically nasty as carried along within those solar winds, that which
at times can reach 2400 km/s, subsequently having to somehow fend
yourself off or otherwise survive what's essentially identical to those
lethal parts of our Van Allen belts.

BTW; those incoming or passing nearby physical items that may have your
name on any number of them, are perhaps as concerning as for the ongoing
Sv trauma to your DNA. Whereas upon Venus there's hardly any chance in
hell of being nailed by a given meteorite unless it's of a much greater
than iron density (such as platinum or perhaps U238 might get through
with sufficiently lethal terminal velocity), and even then you'd likely
have a sufficient opportunity as to merely stepping out of the way prior
to the somewhat wussy impact.

If for example 1.13 Sv/hr were not considered as being sufficiently
Sv-hot, if not at times worthy of such being multi-Sv hot and nasty per
hour, especially testy if you're planning upon spending more than an
hour on that deck or seemingly it's even worse off if cruising in nearby
orbit, then I obviously don't know what is. Whereas at times the direct
solar dosage and of solar wind contributed energy alone can be within
the realm of several thousand rads or tens of Sv per hour, much of which
is going to unavoidably react with whatever's physical of that local
moon environment as gamma and of otherwise becoming those energies of
hard-X-rays as having no significant atmospheric attenuation factor
between yourself and each of them surrounding m2s. Unfortunately, the
mostly aluminum spacecraft is rather semi-transparent to hard-X-rays,
and almost entirely transparent to gamma, with only the secondary/recoil
of whatever that aluminum density of roughly 2.66 g/cm3 has to offer,
therefore becoming an anticathode of what's surrounding and thus
unavoidably available for nailing your DNA via secondary/recoil dosage,
which can actually be worse off than merely being situated within a
naked moonsuit that hasn't nearly the available density for the solar
and cosmic ray energy to react so badly with.

Fortunately for us humans sequestered upon our global warming Earth, in
that such cosmic rays of typically 1e6 to 1e18 eV are getting somewhat
magnetosphere diverted and/or having subsequently converted into
relatively lower energy secondary rays by the time they've reached the
altitude of roughly 20 km, whereas most of this conversion transpires
due to our planet having such an atmospheric density that's more than
sufficient for protecting our frail DNA from this otherwise lethal
trauma. Because the thin upper atmospheric population is of such low
mass particles or rather of the atom by atom sparse density is also the
primary reason why those less lethal anticathode forms of soft-gamma or
hard-X-rays are formed, whereas instead of being like the lethal
gauntlet of what's above the 20 km mark, instead we get to deal with
mostly the remainders of what becomes mostly soft-X-rays that are
considerably less lethal, whereas by some accounts most of those cosmic
remainders reaching the surface of Earth are down to typically less than
0.0057 mrem/hr, and that's certainly proof-positive as to how well
shielded we are by the density and mass of our atmosphere.

The supposed average of our terrestrial combined local and cosmic
background dosage is roughly 240+ mrem/yr or make that 2.41 mSv/yr,
which equals 0.66 mrem/day, which in turn equals merely 0.0274 mrem/hr.
Unfortunately, human DNA hasn't hardly if at all having evolved in order
to match up with the increasing levels of solar, cosmic and that of our
own local radiation pillaged and plundered environment that's so
otherwise physically polluted that it's about to go postal on us, which
is rather unfortunate since the existing radioactive elements that
obviously were here first, as having been essentially once and forever
decaying into the final likes of lead before our dumbfounded eyes
(especially unfortunate of the usually discarded or otherwise released
element of Ra-226), to the point of making it look as though that realm
of geological elements isn't quite as old as we'd thought, that is
unless such radioactive elements were never deposited but rather somehow
getting created within proto-Earth and having ever since migrated
towards the surface while on the fly (seem doable though some how, I
don't think so).

Solar maximum is actually somewhat of a beneficial factor, that is as
long as Earth maintains a viable magnetosphere that's working on our
behalf, in that such extra solar energy that's usually but not always
less lethal than cosmic influx is what also diverts or moderates a small
portion of those incoming cosmic rays, by as much as 5% from what solar
minimum otherwise allows in our front, side and back doors.

Our magnetosphere which includes our two primary Van Allen belts is
typically worth nearly an expanse of 11r (roughly 70,000 km) of what's
at least worthy of representing a shield density of one mg/km on behalf
of each m2, or in other words simulating 70,000 mg/m2 or 70 kg/m2 worth
of an outer shield that's obviously taking advantage of a sparsely
populated density though effective enough at moderating a degree of the
moon's hard-gamma, and otherwise extensively attenuating the moon's
hard-X-rays by way of essentially converting such incoming energy into
less lethal secondaries or recoil forms that our 10t/m2 of atmospheric
shield effectively terminates via converting all but a minor TBI influx
and local dosage of what's most often keeping our personal environment
at less than 0.66 millirad/day.

Fortunately, of what's still keeping our polluted atmosphere as a
healthy radiation shield has been that of our failing magnetosphere,
that's unfortunately diminishing in force by roughly 0.05%/year, and of
the increasing heavy elements that are artificially going into our
humanly polluted atmosphere is only increasing upon the anticathode
affect and effectiveness that's unfortunately going to get some of us
prematurely killed off, unless we can intelligently improve upon making
our wussy DNA into a somewhat rad-hard DNA. Initially (way back in them
good old planetology days of proto-Earth) our magnetosphere was
considerably stronger, as per having once upon a time having sustained a
50+ bar atmosphere of a fairly toasty (Venus like and perhaps even
pre-moon) Earth. Due to the ongoing decay of our magnetosphere,
nowadays the SAA is reaching below 200 km and becoming that of a much
larger area or lethal zone (just don't live anywhere near the SAA or
much less at any significant altitude, and your frail DNA should manage
to survive unscaved).

http://www.srl.caltech.edu/personnel...cos_encyc.html
"Cosmic Rays in the Galaxy: Because cosmic rays are electrically charged
they are deflected by magnetic fields, and their directions have been
randomized, making it impossible to tell where they originated."

In that case I believe that we obviously need to deploy a new and
improved gamma detection and of multiple other science and
interplanetary laser communications platforms, as much as possible
external to our protective magnetosphere, such as station-keeping such
within LL-1. Don't you think?

"The Sun is also a sporadic source of cosmic ray nuclei and electrons
that are accelerated by shock waves traveling through the corona, and by
magnetic energy released in solar flares. During such occurrences the
intensity of energetic particles in space can increase by a factor of
1e2 to 1e6 for hours to days. Such solar particle events are much more
frequent during the active phase of the solar cycle. The maximum energy
reached in solar particle events is typically 10 to 100 MeV,
occasionally reaching 1 GeV (roughly once a year) to 10 GeV (roughly
once a decade)."

That million fold increase in locally produced cosmic like rays is most
certainly a real mission killer, that which your DNA is likely going to
require 50t/m2 or better shielding between yourself and of whatever our
own sun, plus that of shielding against our anticathode moon that's
capable of tossing out such lethal gamma and X-ray flak of it's own. I
believe that even the solar flare hundred fold increase isn't currently
all that survivable outside of the magnetosphere by much other than
rad-hard robotics, and thus is why ISS keeps itself and crew within
below the 400 km mark, and otherwise if at all possible manages to avoid
the SAA zone that's getting larger by the year and currently dips below
200 km.

BTW No.2; that physically dark and nasty moon of ours, of once upon a
time being of perhaps 4000 km in icy diameter, whereas I believe this
nearby orb had been once upon a time our thick ice covered proto-moon
that may have upon arrival taken a nearly lethal glancing blow off
Earth, and whereas it currently offers a significant voltage
differential that my swag tends to believe can obtain a few gigavolts if
not achieving teravoltage, along with packing more than a few joules of
amperage backing that up, thus in addition to whatever's gravity, of
such an electrostatic charge is even better at attracting and holding
onto whatever's cosmic or solar contributed (similar to a Van Allen belt
on steroids as having gone solid). Once again; isn't it too bad we
still haven't established interactive moon surface science probes, nor
anything on behalf of that energy efficient LL-1 science platform, much
less having accomplished anything on behalf of the LSE-CM/ISS
(apparently all of that's being reserved for the expertise and future
wealth of China).

Venus is simply a whole lot safer than Earth when it come down to Sv.

The toasty geothermal environment of Venus is all together less Sv hot
and thereby DNA safe and sane, that is unless there's piles upon piles
of Venusian yellowcake to deal with, whereas even without having any
significant magnetosphere there's obviously more than a sufficiently
protective atmospheric shield, as to making that toasty surface
environment a whole lot more DNA end-user friendly than whatever we
earthlings have to deal with, plus the matter that Venus doesn't have
one of those nearby gamma and hard-X-ray producing moons to contend with
is simply all that much better. Just because the Venusian surface
environment seems as though a tad bit on the humanly warm side, at least
most everything that's of the IR spectrum (we're talking of mostly
geothermal IR) is technically manageable, and otherwise entirely within
the status quo of our existing wealth of applied technology, and there's
at least a few other extremely positive attributes about Venus that are
for the good of that planet having sustained intelligent other life,
possibly even the sort of coexisting life we already know of (though I'm
thinking in ways that count, in that their form of intelligence more
advanced and far better civilized than most of us earthly humans that
seem to function at our best upon using our social/religious arrogance,
greed and bigotry, all of which demanding the utmost skills of applied
LLPOF and of evidence exclusion when and wherever necessary, and
apparently if at all possible being Jewish and willing to collaborate
with whomever's the current warlord couldn't hurt, along with having
those ongoing spendy missions to the likes of Mercury, Mars and Pluto as
media infomercial-science hype and/or being as dog-wagging good as it
gets).

If you happen know of something/anything that our NASA doesn't, please
share and share alike, especially if any of it should relate to our
moon, Venus or even the Sirius star/solar system that we seem to have
been within some extended (105,000 year) orbit thereof.
-
Brad Guth


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

This somewhat polished contribution has only been ever so slightly
improved upon (dyslexic words and my usual weird math that I can't seem
to keep track of), as fully related to keeping a safe distance and/or
being well shielded from our anticathode moon, along with some secondary
topic focus upon the task of our accomplishing Venus instead of that
nasty moon of ours, or much less that of planets other than Venus.

The fact that Venus is very much geologically or rather planetology
newish and geothermally alive and kicking, and for the most part w/o
solar/cosmic Sv to worry about, is yet another positive consideration on
behalf of something intelligent existing/coexisting that may only seem
too good to be true, but I honestly believe it is.

The moon is hot and Venus simply is not, is of no lie, much less of any
ruse. 36e6 cosmic hits/m2/hr isn't exactly playing it safe and sane.

http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/re...=smart&p=1/440

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.o...b379d00c7bb5a7

As for my taking the somewhat conservative review at those moon
radiation numbers, as to be excluding upon all of whatever's derived via
locally radioactive elements as having been touted as offering better
than twice that of our terrestrial geophysical background dosage, and of
excluding whatever else our sun has to contribute, whereas just
accounting for the cosmic rays of one count/cm2/sec = 10,000 hits/m2/sec
is what at first seems almost wussy.

However, even though this incoming rate of 36e6 hits per m2/hr may still
not sound like all that much to fret over (especially pointless if you
can't accomplish basic math), that is until you reconsider that each and
every unfortunate moonsuit soul on that naked moon of our's is going to
be unavoidably surrounded by at least 3.14e6 m2 of a
reactive/anticathode lunar terrain, as well as for having next to
nothing of any atmospheric density between yourself and each of those
unavoidably reactive/anticathode square meters, much less intended as
for spending mere seconds on that physically dark and nasty surface,
whereas more than likely we're talking hours if not expecting to somehow
survive days on end without ever involving their banked bone marrow as
plan-B (I can honestly say; good luck with that).

Having to survive sufficiently unscaved from within such a demanding
moonsuit/EVA of such thermal and physical impact worthy extremes, and of
the otherwise downright lethal environment, of such a multiple Sv-hot
zone that's continually keeping yourself within the local environment of
that full and lethal gauntlet of those 113e12 hits(36e6 * 3.14e6) of
cosmic rays per hour is of no simple solution, much less has our NASA or
anyone other offered a viable plan of action that'll prevent your DNA
from getting summarily nailed but good. Add in those raw solar
illuminated and of the invisible spectrum forms of solar energy and
thereby unavoidable Sv influx, that at times goes entirely off their
satellite Sv instrument monitoring scale (as having recently fully
saturated their radiation detection methods), plus tossing in a little
of whatever's locally of radioactive elements and lo and behold, within
at best hours if not minutes you're soon going to become a dead
astronaut walking, as having been a sitting duck in a worse than
microwave oven that even that cash of banked bone marrow may not
constitute sufficient insurance.

So, just going by the continual influx of cosmic rays alone is where
you'd be subjected to a TBI(total body irradiation) dosage environment
of whatever those available 113e12 hits/hr can manage to contribute,
plus enjoying those various and unavoidable secondary/recoil rays of the
mostly lethal kind as an ongoing threat coming from each and every
second of essentially a naked moonsuit exposure. Of course you'd also
be getting a little direct one on one personal cosmic impact dosage, at
the very least 1e4 cosmic rays as arriving from nearly all directions
per each and every second, or 36e6 personal hits throughout your body
per hr, plus your having to deal with whatever's locally radioactive as
obtained from all of those nearby 3.14e6 m2 off what's typically half
again more anticathode dense than aluminum, and once that sun comes up
is when you'd certainly be entitled to the direct and secondary/recoil
of solar induced dosage from whatever our raw solar influx has to offer
in the way of incoming soft-gamma as well as for the direct influx plus
secondary/recoil birth of hard-X-rays, plus there's whatever else that's
physically nasty as carried along within those solar winds, that which
at times can reach 2400 km/s, subsequently having to somehow fend
yourself off or otherwise survive what's essentially identical to those
lethal parts of our Van Allen belts.

BTW; those incoming or of whatever's passing nearby of various physical
items that may have your name on any number of them, are perhaps every
bit as concerning as for the ongoing Sv trauma to your DNA. Whereas
upon Venus there's hardly any chance in hell of being nailed by a given
meteorite unless it's of a much greater than iron density (such as
platinum or perhaps U238 might get through that atmospheric soup with
sufficiently lethal terminal velocity), and even then you'd likely have
an opportunity as to merely stepping out of the way prior to the
somewhat moderated impact.

If for example 1.13 Sv/hr were not considered as being sufficiently
Sv-hot, if not at times worthy of such being multi-Sv hot and nasty per
hour, especially testy if you're planning upon spending more than an
hour on that deck or seemingly it's even worse off if cruising in nearby
orbit, then I obviously don't know what is. Whereas at times the direct
solar dosage and of solar wind contributed energy alone can be within
the realm of several thousand rads or tens of Sv per hour, much of which
is going to unavoidably react with whatever's physical of that local
moon environment as gamma and of otherwise becoming those energies of
hard-X-rays as having no significant atmospheric attenuation factor
between yourself and each of them surrounding m2s. Unfortunately, the
mostly aluminum spacecraft is rather semi-transparent to hard-X-rays,
and almost entirely transparent to gamma, with only the secondary/recoil
of whatever that aluminum density of roughly 2.66 g/cm3 has to offer,
therefore becoming an anticathode of what's surrounding and thus
unavoidably available for nailing your DNA via secondary/recoil dosage,
which can actually be worse off than merely being situated within a
naked moonsuit that hasn't nearly the available density for the solar
and cosmic ray energy to react so badly with.

Fortunately for us humans sequestered upon our global warming Earth, in
that such cosmic rays of typically 1e6 to 1e18 eV are getting somewhat
magnetosphere diverted and/or having subsequently converted into
relatively lower energy secondary rays by the time they've reached the
altitude of roughly 20 km, whereas most of this conversion transpires
due to our planet having such an atmospheric density that's more than
sufficient for protecting our frail DNA from this otherwise lethal
trauma. Because the thin upper atmospheric population is of such low
mass particles or rather of the atom by atom sparse density is also the
primary reason why those less lethal anticathode forms of soft-gamma or
hard-X-rays are formed, whereas instead of being like the lethal
gauntlet of what's above the 20 km mark, instead we get to deal with
mostly the remainders of what becomes mostly soft-X-rays that are
considerably less lethal, whereas by some accounts most of those cosmic
remainders reaching the surface of Earth are down to typically less than
0.0057 mrem/hr, and that's certainly proof-positive as to how well
shielded we are by the density and mass of our atmosphere.

The supposed average of our terrestrial combined local and cosmic
background dosage is roughly 240+ mrem/yr or make that 2.41 mSv/yr,
which equals 0.66 mrem/day, which in turn equals merely 0.0274 mrem/hr.
Unfortunately, human DNA hasn't hardly if at all having evolved in order
to match up with the increasing levels of solar, cosmic and that of our
own local radiation pillaged and plundered environment that's so
otherwise physically polluted that it's about to go postal on us, which
is rather unfortunate since the existing radioactive elements that
obviously were here first, as having been essentially once and forever
decaying into the final likes of lead before our dumbfounded eyes
(especially unfortunate of the usually discarded or otherwise released
element of Ra-226), to the point of making it look as though that realm
of geological elements isn't quite as old as we'd thought, that is
unless such radioactive elements were never deposited but rather somehow
getting created within proto-Earth and having ever since migrated
towards the surface while on the fly (seem doable though some how, I
don't think so).

Solar maximum is actually somewhat of a beneficial factor, that is as
long as Earth maintains a viable magnetosphere that's working on our
behalf, in that such extra solar energy that's usually but not always
less lethal than cosmic influx is what also diverts or moderates a small
portion of those incoming cosmic rays, by as much as 5% from what solar
minimum otherwise allows in our front, side and back doors.

Our magnetosphere which includes our two primary Van Allen belts is
typically worth nearly an expanse of 11r (roughly 70,000 km) of what's
at least worthy of representing a shield density of one mg/km on behalf
of each m2, or in other words simulating 70,000 mg/m2 or 70 g/m2 worth
of an outer shield that's obviously taking advantage of a sparsely
populated density though effective enough at moderating a degree of the
moon's hard-gamma, and otherwise extensively attenuating the moon's
hard-X-rays by way of essentially converting such incoming energy into
less lethal secondaries or recoil forms that our 10t/m2 of atmospheric
shield effectively terminates via converting all but a minor TBI influx
and local dosage of what's most often keeping our personal environment
at less than 0.66 millirad/day.

Fortunately, of what's still keeping our polluted atmosphere as a
healthy radiation shield has been that of our failing magnetosphere,
that's unfortunately diminishing in force by roughly 0.05%/year, and of
the increasing heavy elements that are artificially going into our
humanly polluted atmosphere is only increasing upon the anticathode
affect and effectiveness that's unfortunately going to get some of us
prematurely killed off, unless we can intelligently improve upon making
our wussy DNA into a somewhat rad-hard DNA. Initially (way back in them
good old planetology days of proto-Earth) our magnetosphere was
considerably stronger, as per having once upon a time having sustained a
50+ bar atmosphere of a fairly toasty (Venus like and perhaps even
pre-moon) Earth. Due to the ongoing decay of our magnetosphere,
nowadays the SAA is reaching below 200 km and becoming that of a much
larger area or lethal zone (just don't live anywhere near the SAA or
much less at any significant altitude, and your frail DNA should manage
to survive unscaved).

http://www.srl.caltech.edu/personnel...cos_encyc.html
"Cosmic Rays in the Galaxy: Because cosmic rays are electrically charged
they are deflected by magnetic fields, and their directions have been
randomized, making it impossible to tell where they originated."

In that case I do believe that we obviously need to deploy a new and
improved gamma detection and of multiple other science and
interplanetary laser communications platforms, as much as possible
external to our protective magnetosphere, such as station-keeping such
within LL-1. Don't you think?

"The Sun is also a sporadic source of cosmic ray nuclei and electrons
that are accelerated by shock waves traveling through the corona, and by
magnetic energy released in solar flares. During such occurrences the
intensity of energetic particles in space can increase by a factor of
1e2 to 1e6 for hours to days. Such solar particle events are much more
frequent during the active phase of the solar cycle. The maximum energy
reached in solar particle events is typically 10 to 100 MeV,
occasionally reaching 1 GeV (roughly once a year) to 10 GeV (roughly
once a decade)."

That million fold increase in locally produced cosmic like rays is most
certainly a real mission killer, that which your DNA is likely going to
require 50t/m2 or better shielding between yourself and of whatever our
own sun, plus that of shielding against our anticathode moon that's
capable of tossing out such lethal gamma and X-ray flak of it's own. I
believe that even the solar flare hundred fold increase isn't currently
all that survivable outside of the magnetosphere by much other than
rad-hard robotics, and thus is why ISS keeps itself and crew within
below the 400 km mark, and otherwise if at all possible manages to avoid
the SAA zone that's getting larger by the year and currently dips below
200 km.

BTW No.2; that physically dark and nasty moon of ours, of once upon a
time being of perhaps 4000 km in icy diameter, whereas I believe this
nearby orb had been once upon a time our thick ice covered proto-moon
that may have upon arrival taken a nearly lethal glancing blow off
Earth, and whereas it currently offers a significant voltage
differential that my swag tends to believe can obtain a few gigavolts if
not achieving teravoltage, along with packing more than a few joules of
amperage backing that up, thus in addition to whatever's gravity, of
such an electrostatic charge is even better at attracting and holding
onto whatever's cosmic or solar contributed (similar to a Van Allen belt
on steroids as having gone solid). Once again; isn't it too bad we
still haven't established interactive moon surface science probes, nor
anything on behalf of that energy efficient LL-1 science platform, much
less having accomplished anything on behalf of the LSE-CM/ISS
(apparently all of that's being reserved for the expertise and future
wealth of China).

Venus is simply a whole lot safer than Earth when it come down to Sv.

The toasty geothermal surface environment of Venus is all together less
Sv hot than Earth, and thereby DNA safe and sane, that is unless there's
piles upon piles of Venusian yellowcake to deal with, whereas even
without having any significant magnetosphere there's obviously more than
a sufficiently protective atmospheric shield, as to making that toasty
surface environment a whole lot more DNA end-user friendly than whatever
we earthlings have to deal with, plus the matter that Venus doesn't have
one of those nearby gamma and hard-X-ray producing moons to contend with
is simply all that much better. Just because the Venusian surface
environment seems as though a tad bit on the humanly warm side, at least
most everything that's of the IR spectrum (we're talking of mostly
geothermal IR) is technically manageable, and otherwise entirely within
the status quo of our existing wealth of applied technology, and there's
at least a few other extremely positive attributes about Venus that are
also for the good of that planet having sustained intelligent other
life, possibly even the sort of coexisting life we already know of
(though I'm thinking in ways that count, in that their form of
intelligence more advanced and far better civilized than most of us
earthly humans that seem to function at our best upon using our
social/religious arrogance, greed and bigotry, all of which demanding
the utmost skills of applied LLPOF and of evidence exclusion when and
wherever necessary, and apparently if at all possible being Jewish and
willing to collaborate with whomever's the current warlord couldn't
hurt, along with having those ongoing spendy missions to the likes of
Mercury, Mars and Pluto as media infomercial-science hype and/or being
as dog-wagging good as it gets).

If any of you folks should happen know of something/anything that our
NASA doesn't, please share and share alike, especially if any of it
should relate to our moon, Venus or even the Sirius star/solar system
that we seem to have been within some extended (105,000 year) orbit
thereof.
-
Brad Guth


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"Brad Guth" wrote
[...]

Guth: What is your ****ing point? Because I cannot be bothered
reading all of your spew. Here's the deal: State your point in
TWENTY words or less.

If you cannot, that speaks for itself: That you have no point to
make.

Twenty words. Your post will contain NO MORE than twenty words in
total. If you cannot achieve that, then shut up until you can.


Martin

Oh, and why TF were you posting to rec.org.mensa? Followups trimmed.

"Fleetie" wrote in message


Twenty words. Your post will contain NO MORE than twenty words in
total. If you cannot achieve that, then shut up until you can.

There's other intelligent life existing/coexisting on Venus.

Got anything constructive to share?

That's merely 20 words/numbers, including this.

Oh, and why TF were you posting to rec.org.mensa? Followups trimmed.
Sorry, that's over my 20 word limit.
-
Brad Guth



--
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Obviously the surface of Venus is still by all rights thermally toasty
hot and not otherwise all that rad/Sv hot unless that Venusian
geothermally active environment so happens to hold more than it's fair
share of yellowcake.

Unfortunately, it looks as though ESA's Venus EXPRESS team is still on
extended lunch break (taking high tea) by way of their holding out on
us, whereas even their PFS instrument that apparently isn't going to be
restarted until the end of September is what seems rather unfortunate if
not absolutely pathetic.

Their lack of offering so much as an honest swag, as to suggesting upon
a rough thermal gradient by way of extracting and/or extrapolating such
information from whatever's currently available, is a perfectly good
example of their intent to hold off upon sharing as much information
impact of whatever their new and improved science should otherwise have
to offer. If their PFS instrument eventually accomplishes it's thing
(of which it should), then perhaps the extended wait as for obtaining
such results is going to become well worth having done it their way.

The following images are still impressive, and I believe well worth our
time as to review as much as possible upon each and every pixel, with
such images indicating a thermal differential of better than 7:1
(perhaps nearly 10:1) means that the nighttime season of that Venusian
environment isn't nearly as hot and nasty as we'd been informed by our
NASA.
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/..._500_red_c.jpg
-
Bras Guth


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What a pathetic joke; Usenet isn't even worth it's own up-hill flowing
infomercial crapolla any more. Gee whiz, why am I not the least bit
surprised.

Unlike naked folks walking on our moon and returning home entirely
unscaved, at least I can prove it within the regular laws of physics, as
well as I can otherwise prove with the best available science, that
there has been and may yet be other intelligent life existing/coexisting
on Venus.

Would any of you good folks like to argue and/or constructively
contribute as to why the hell not? or is even that by itself asking too
much?
-

How about we try real hard as to forget all about how downright Sv/rad
hot and nasty our moon actually is; I'm saying screw each and every one
of those NASA/Apollo vibrant stars (including those of the rather
bluish, near-blue, violet and near-UV spectrum worth of that extremely
vibrant Sirius star/solar system); just show us village idiots as to
where's Venus?

Apollo 11, 14 and 16, to please show us a Kodak moment including Venus
as unavoidably obtained from orbit or from the surface. Where's your
big-ass LLPOF insurmountable problem?

Most any 3D simulator proves exactly where Venus should have existed,
and otherwise of how easily photographed it would have been, as
unavoidably obtained along with that of our physically dark moon or of
mother Earth being within the same frame(s), and thereby of having been
easily recorded within the DR(dynamic range) as afforded by the very
same photographic exposure.
-
"If you're not looking for the truth, you will not find it."
-Brad Guth

"To believe with certainty we must begin with doubting."
-Stanislaus I

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes,
but having new eyes."
-Marcel Proust

"Truth is given, not to be contemplated, but to be done. Life is an
action, not a thought."
-F.W. Robertson
~
Even grumpy old Kurt Vonnegut would have to agree that; WAR is WAR,
thus "in war there are no rules" - In fact, war has been the very reason
why honest folks are having to deal with the likes of others that
haven't been playing by whatever the supposed rules, such as our
resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) having invented WMD seems to come to
mind.

Life upon Venus, a township w/Bridge & ET/UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, plus the updated sub-topics; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm


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If the ESA's Venus EXPRESS PFS instrument is not viable, then perhaps we
can devote some local efforts as to interplanetary laser (ABL if need
be) communication efforts, especially whenever Venus is so nearby every
19 months. Too bad we still haven't that LL-1 science platform to work
from. Perhaps China will soon enough accomplish the first and thereby
having established this one and only such LL-1 science station on our
behalf.

"dkomo" wrote in message
news
Why haven't they found *us*? Let's see, our galaxy has about 300
billion stars. The latest estimate I've seen is that 90% of them could
have planets. That's 270 billion planets (assuming only one planet per
star system) to search in order to find intelligent species. That's a
tall order even for a very advanced alien civilization. And our own
planet has been lit up at night only since about the late 1800's when
gas lightning in the streets of cities became commonplace, while
widespread use of radio waves didn't come along until the 1920's.

We're also still into using those easily distorted and otherwise badly
interstellar attinuated microwaves and/or of wussy radar signals that
are still terribly interstellar inefficient (especially if having been
originated from the surface of Earth, and not otherwise generated
external to our magnetosphere), and even at that there's been no serious
beacon efforts honestly applied towards the most nearby of the most
viable other star/solar systems.

On our global warming Earth is where human greed, arrogance and bigotry
has been policy, thus being status quo snookered and/or dumbfounded is
also a requirement. Unfortunately, Most of our talents and resources
thus far have been devoted as to exterminating our own kind over the
limited energy and rare element resources of this magnetosphere failing
planet.

I'm thinking that other ET life could be much like right here on Earth,
whereas certain islands that have been teaming with complex plant and
animal life, yet never once having evolved with an original species of
human as to contaminate, pillage and rape everything to death, whereas I
tend to believe there are a few such other worlds (possibly nearby)
without a human infestation.

I also believe with conviction that we're within a 105,000 (+/- 5,000)
year orbital cycle with our parent Sirius star/solar system. I have to
say this because of the available science and also because the regular
laws of physics is what makes it impossible to not be the case.

Gravity sucks, as in regardless of whatever big-bang or little-bang
happenstance, whereas everything remains unavoidably in orbit around
something. We are not biologically, intellectually nor otherwise
physically alone, just badly snookered and otherwise having been
dumbfounded to death for most of our pathetically bigoted lives.

Why the heck is SETI looking only for the remainders of other arrogant,
greedy, dumbfounded and terribly bigoted humans (apparently looking for
those Jewish ETs none the less)?

By the time we've detected their multi-thousand light year old message,
arnt those folks rather dead, as may will be the whole incest lot of
humanity upon this magnetosphere failing Earth within the next thousand
years. So what's the difference?

I have a few perfectly serious physics and hard-science related
questions about Venus, of which I'll gladly share and share alike by way
of paying the likes of yourself big-time loot if you'll help my research
along, or otherwise merely for contributiing as for kicking a few of
those mainstream butts that are in a bad way in need of their status quo
mindsets getting kicked to hell.
-
Brad Guth


--
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