M2P2?

Can anyone update us on the status of mini magnetosphere plasma
propulsion (M2P2)? The website,

http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Sp...aceModel/M2P2/

is a couple years out of date, and I hesitate to bug the principals
uninvited. The idea seems so appealing -- high effective specific
impulse, radiation protection, etc. -- but perhaps there is a hitch.
Are there plans to test a vehicle in space?

Stuart

In article ,
Stuart E. Strand wrote:
Can anyone update us on the status of mini magnetosphere plasma
propulsion (M2P2)?

As far as I know, it remains a paper concept with some major unknowns.
I don't believe anyone has yet funded an in-space test.

...The idea seems so appealing -- high effective specific
impulse, radiation protection, etc. -- but perhaps there is a hitch.

High effective specific impulse, yes. Radiation protection, no -- the
mini-magnetospheres are not big enough or strong enough to fend off
serious particle radiation.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

I also would like to know of any new information concerning M2P2, and
of any new developments with the "dusty plasma" concept for it as
well. Here is a website for that particular concept:


http://bex.nsstc.uah.edu/RbS/PAPER/STAIF02/




"Stuart E. Strand" wrote in message ...
Can anyone update us on the status of mini magnetosphere plasma
propulsion (M2P2)? The website,

http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Sp...aceModel/M2P2/

is a couple years out of date, and I hesitate to bug the principals
uninvited. The idea seems so appealing -- high effective specific
impulse, radiation protection, etc. -- but perhaps there is a hitch.
Are there plans to test a vehicle in space?

Stuart

"Stuart E. Strand" writes:

Can anyone update us on the status of mini magnetosphere plasma
propulsion (M2P2)? The website,

http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Sp...aceModel/M2P2/

is a couple years out of date, and I hesitate to bug the principals
uninvited. The idea seems so appealing -- high effective specific
impulse, radiation protection, etc. -- but perhaps there is a hitch.

Among other things, the principals have only vague concepts as to how
to actually *steer* an M2P2.


Are there plans to test a vehicle in space?

There is no money to test a vehicle in space. There is also no money to
fly operational missions for which an M2P2 would be a clearly better
propulsion system than other, more mature systems.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
* for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

(Allen Meece) writes:

I wonder too why such silence after the U of Wash. got the nasa grant
money? One scenario is that M2P2 is now deemed such an effective
propulsion that it has been classified as secret.

Since an M2P2 will not work inside a planetary magnetosphere, and since
despite their recenti disingenuous disimnformation to the contrary,
niether the U.S. Gov't not the U.S. Military have any interest in anything
farther out than geosynchronous orbit, your paranoid hypothesis that it has
"gone black" is ludicrously unlikely. A far simpler explanation would be
that either M2P2 does not work, or does not scale as expected. Occam's Razor
should tell you that you should never invoke the complex and untenable
explanation like "there MUST be a conspiracy!" when a simple explanation
such as human error or human incompetance fits the facts equallyt well.

BTW, _PLEASE_ stop "top posting," and learn instead to use standard usenet
quotation style. Your quotation style makes your postings incomprehensible.
Example:

A: .backwards posting your read to readers your forces "posting Top"
Q: What do you mean by that ???
A: "Top posting" reverses the logical flow of the discussion.
Q: Why is "top posting" bad?

-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

"Stuart E. Strand" wrote in message ...
Can anyone update us on the status of mini magnetosphere plasma
propulsion (M2P2)? The website,

http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Sp...aceModel/M2P2/

is a couple years out of date, and I hesitate to bug the principals
uninvited. The idea seems so appealing -- high effective specific
impulse, radiation protection, etc. -- but perhaps there is a hitch.
Are there plans to test a vehicle in space?

Stuart

Stuart, Robert Winglee and John Slough are a very nice guys and would
porbably enjoy your contacting them and it would seem you have the
easy means to do so. Any phone on campus and the four digit number...

I wouldn't buy most of what has been posted to this thread. Part of
why the website might not be changing is the lack of a student
interested in doing the work.

--Chris Vancil

"Stuart E. Strand" writes:

In article ,
(John Schilling) wrote:

Can anyone update us on the status of mini magnetosphere plasma
propulsion (M2P2)? The website,

http://www.geophys.washington.edu/Sp...aceModel/M2P2/

is a couple years out of date, and I hesitate to bug the principals
uninvited. The idea seems so appealing -- high effective specific
impulse, radiation protection, etc. -- but perhaps there is a hitch.

Among other things, the principals have only vague concepts as to how
to actually *steer* an M2P2.

How about 2 mini plasmas of different sizes on opposite sides of the
craft, oriented at an angle to the solar wind? Would that work? How
would the angle be maintained? Gyroscopically?


Possibly I wasn't clear enough on what I meant by "steer". Maintaining
any desired pointing angle is not a problem. That would probably be done
with a combination of gyroscopes and small thrusters.

The problem is that an M2P2 is very like a sailboat with shallow draft
and no keel - it's very good at getting blown downwind, and if you
point the bow in some other direction, it still tends to get blown
downwind only now does so while pointed sideways.

It may be possible to exploit asymmetries in the field to get *some*
side thrust, but how much is uncertain. This wouldn't require two
M2P2 systems, just one whose orientation can be controlled. But
unless this turns out to work suorprisingly well, the M2P2 is mostly
good for being blown almost uncontrollably outward from the sun.


At a guess, it would be about as useful as the squaresail on an old
Greek galley. If the wind happens to be blowing exactly where you
want it to, you can raise the sail and give the oarsmen a break.
But you still need, and are limited by the performance of, those
oarsmen.

Classical solar sails, BTW, are much more versatile. If you hold
those at an angle to the incident sunlight, you definitely get a
side force, substantial (by solar-sail standards) and precisely
calculable.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
* for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *