Astronaut Gear

Two questions about the equipment Apollo astronauts had while on the
moon.

1) Did they have portable lights? Flash lights, helmet lights, some
kind of light they could use poking around in a hypothetical moon
cave?

2) On the topic of poking around in moon caves, did the space suit
radios act as relays for each other? For example, if an astronaut got
well into a cave so his suit radio wasn't reaching the lander, would
another astronaut's radio act as a relay to the lander and then to
Earth? Or was it just a direct connection to the lander only?

Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Mike Miller wrote:

Two questions about the equipment Apollo astronauts had while on the
moon.

1) Did they have portable lights? Flash lights, helmet lights, some
kind of light they could use poking around in a hypothetical moon
cave?

No, but I doubt anyone seriously considered that they'd find one.
Indeed, the early landing sites were picked because they were fairly
flat, and unchallenging to landing.

Not that it would be at all hard to provide those things in the
future....

2) On the topic of poking around in moon caves, did the space suit
radios act as relays for each other? For example, if an astronaut got
well into a cave so his suit radio wasn't reaching the lander, would
another astronaut's radio act as a relay to the lander and then to
Earth? Or was it just a direct connection to the lander only?

Yep, just to the lander and each other.

"Mike Miller" wrote in message
om...
Two questions about the equipment Apollo astronauts had while on the
moon.

1) Did they have portable lights? Flash lights, helmet lights, some
kind of light they could use poking around in a hypothetical moon
cave?

2) On the topic of poking around in moon caves, did the space suit
radios act as relays for each other? For example, if an astronaut got
well into a cave so his suit radio wasn't reaching the lander, would
another astronaut's radio act as a relay to the lander and then to
Earth? Or was it just a direct connection to the lander only?


While there was some early talk about exploring any caves that might be
found (much more likely to be lava tubes, as most caves as we know them on
Earth require the presence of water at some point in their history) I'm
pretty sure any plans were nixed due to the dangers (out of contact from
Earth, darkness, etc.) In addition most would probably have required
vertical gear, which would have introduced even more dangers.



Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

In article , cray74
@hotmail.com says...
Joann Evans wrote in message ...

No, but I doubt anyone seriously considered that they'd find one.
Indeed, the early landing sites were picked because they were fairly
flat, and unchallenging to landing.

How would I go about confirming or denying the presence of portable
lights on the Apollo lunar missions? I've had two answers on the
matter (one in person, and yours), and they contradict each other
(one yes, one no).

In the Apollo 13 movie they showed them using a machined aluminum
flashlight in the CM. I expect the LEM had one too. I find it
impossible to believe that anyone would go camping without packing a
flashlight.

Marc

Marc 182 wrote:

In article , cray74
@hotmail.com says...
Joann Evans wrote in message ...

No, but I doubt anyone seriously considered that they'd find one.
Indeed, the early landing sites were picked because they were fairly
flat, and unchallenging to landing.

How would I go about confirming or denying the presence of portable
lights on the Apollo lunar missions? I've had two answers on the
matter (one in person, and yours), and they contradict each other
(one yes, one no).

In the Apollo 13 movie they showed them using a machined aluminum
flashlight in the CM. I expect the LEM had one too. I find it
impossible to believe that anyone would go camping without packing a
flashlight.

Marc

I'll accept that, but I'll bet it was most likely intended for use
within the LM. Apollo missions landed not long after local Lunar
sunrise, so unless something as unusual as a cave or unknown,
uncollapsed rille were found, there would be little use for it outside.
(More comparable to taking a flashlight on a picnic, instead. You don't
expect to still be there after dark.)

If they had still been there long enough for Lunar sunset, it would
have meant something else had gone *very* wrong....

In article ,
says...
Marc 182 wrote:

In article , cray74
@hotmail.com says...
Joann Evans wrote in message ...

No, but I doubt anyone seriously considered that they'd find one.
Indeed, the early landing sites were picked because they were fairly
flat, and unchallenging to landing.

How would I go about confirming or denying the presence of portable
lights on the Apollo lunar missions? I've had two answers on the
matter (one in person, and yours), and they contradict each other
(one yes, one no).

In the Apollo 13 movie they showed them using a machined aluminum
flashlight in the CM. I expect the LEM had one too. I find it
impossible to believe that anyone would go camping without packing a
flashlight.

Marc

I'll accept that, but I'll bet it was most likely intended for use
within the LM. Apollo missions landed not long after local Lunar
sunrise, so unless something as unusual as a cave or unknown,
uncollapsed rille were found, there would be little use for it outside.
(More comparable to taking a flashlight on a picnic, instead. You don't
expect to still be there after dark.)

If they had still been there long enough for Lunar sunset, it would
have meant something else had gone *very* wrong....

I absolutely agree. Any flashlights on board were intended for looking
behind panels and poking into dim bins, and in case a breaker blew and
the cabin lights went out.

But back to the orig question, at least one flashlight was probably
available on all missions. I've read that the first mission carried a
"cloths line" to haul samples up to the assent vehicle. That's probably
12 foot or more of fairly sturdy line.

Later missions didn't have that, but the last few carried hammocks to
sleep in (I doubt anyone really slept on the moon). Slice those up and
knot them together, grey tape a flash light to your helmet, and a really
determined astronaut might do some caving. It would be truly dangerous.

Marc

USGS Employee wrote in message et...
In article ,
says...

I'll accept that, but I'll bet it was most likely intended for use
within the LM. Apollo missions landed not long after local Lunar
sunrise, so unless something as unusual as a cave or unknown,
uncollapsed rille were found, there would be little use for it outside.
(More comparable to taking a flashlight on a picnic, instead. You don't
expect to still be there after dark.)

[snip]

Later missions didn't have that, but the last few carried hammocks to
sleep in (I doubt anyone really slept on the moon). Slice those up and
knot them together, grey tape a flash light to your helmet, and a really
determined astronaut might do some caving. It would be truly dangerous.

That's just about exactly what I was thinking of, an uncollapsed
portion of a rille. Like, Apollo 15 is deliberately landed near
the end of a rille to confirm theories it might be a collapsed lava
tube and, hey, that shaded area in the rubble at the end turns out
to be a hole into an uncollapsed lava tube big enough for an
astronaut. An astronaut can just walk in despite their clumsy
suits, snap a few pics for the kids at home, walk back out. No
spelunking or ropes required.

Lights and radios, however...

Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

In article ,
USGS Employee wrote:
Later missions didn't have that, but the last few carried hammocks to
sleep in (I doubt anyone really slept on the moon)...

The crews on the J-series missions got reasonably good sleep on the Moon,
due to the combination of the hammocks and the ability to take their suits
off for sleep. The earlier crews did not sleep very well.
--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |

In article , cray74
@hotmail.com says...
USGS Employee wrote in message et...
In article ,
says...

I'll accept that, but I'll bet it was most likely intended for use
within the LM. Apollo missions landed not long after local Lunar
sunrise, so unless something as unusual as a cave or unknown,
uncollapsed rille were found, there would be little use for it outside.
(More comparable to taking a flashlight on a picnic, instead. You don't
expect to still be there after dark.)

[snip]

Later missions didn't have that, but the last few carried hammocks to
sleep in (I doubt anyone really slept on the moon). Slice those up and
knot them together, grey tape a flash light to your helmet, and a really
determined astronaut might do some caving. It would be truly dangerous.

That's just about exactly what I was thinking of, an uncollapsed
portion of a rille. Like, Apollo 15 is deliberately landed near
the end of a rille to confirm theories it might be a collapsed lava
tube and, hey, that shaded area in the rubble at the end turns out
to be a hole into an uncollapsed lava tube big enough for an
astronaut. An astronaut can just walk in despite their clumsy
suits, snap a few pics for the kids at home, walk back out. No
spelunking or ropes required.

Lights and radios, however...

The astronauts could verbally relay messages, "Mike just said, 'I'm in
the main tunnel now'". Also I'm willing to bet, but can't prove, that
the rover had some transponder capabilities. In any case, there had
better be something in that hole, other than just a hole, to make it
worth the risk.

Marc

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Marc 182 wrote:
The crews on the J-series missions got reasonably good sleep on the
Moon,
due to the combination of the hammocks and the ability to take their
suits
off for sleep. The earlier crews did not sleep very well.

Really? Did they really sleep, or just lay there thinking, "wow, I'm on
the moon!" That would have been me. If they could sleep, I admire them
even more.

Believe me, after the second day spent outside in a spacesuit, they slept.
That's very hard work.

The effect you mention did operate, however. :-) Apollo 11 theoretically
had a sleep period between landing and moonwalk, but even aside from the
physical discomforts, that just didn't work out...

Umm, I thought the sleep period was completely cancelled and the moonwalk
moved up.

Or is that what you meant by "didn't work out..."


--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |