first time telescope to view rings of Saturn

Hi,

I am looking at upgrading my binoculars to a telescope and have a few
questions. My initial aim would be to see the rings of Saturn. I live
in Melbourne Australia so there is a fair bit of light pollution.

what is the minimum scope that will distinguish the rings? 4 inch
reflector? 50 mm refractor?

how good are some of the cheap scopes going around at the moment? I am
talking of $30 specials and $50 reduced from $90 or so. There is also a
fair few on ebay. Will I be able to see saturn and the rings with one
of these (eg.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/L8249
). I am thinking of this option as a cheap way to try the hobby out and
then maybe upgrade later on.

Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?

making my own, is this still a possibility? does anyone know where to
get blanks for grinding a reflector? has anyone done this and can you
see the rings of Saturn? is there a lot involved in maintaining the
reflective material on the reflector of a home made reflector? I once
read something about coating with silver and having to polish it on a
regular basis. I presume this is not a problem with commercial models.

Just another thought on making my own. what are the limitations of
using a concave mirror (as available for bathrooms shaving mirrors etc)
.. I understand that they may have imprfections and there would be a
double image produced by the glass and the reflective material under
the glass, but how bad/good could they be? it is easy to get these up
to about 12 inches, even as an experiment for my son, is it worth
giving it a go?

clear skies

saramic

saramic wrote:
Hi,

I am looking at upgrading my binoculars to a telescope and have a few
questions. My initial aim would be to see the rings of Saturn. I live
in Melbourne Australia so there is a fair bit of light pollution.


Generally light pollution will not affect bright objects such as Saturn,
Jupiter and the Moon.

what is the minimum scope that will distinguish the rings? 4 inch
reflector? 50 mm refractor?

how good are some of the cheap scopes going around at the moment? I am
talking of $30 specials and $50 reduced from $90 or so. There is also a
fair few on ebay. Will I be able to see saturn and the rings with one
of these (eg.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/L8249
). I am thinking of this option as a cheap way to try the hobby out and
then maybe upgrade later on.


You could tell the rings were there. You would likely see no detail
with a 50mm refractor. And cheap scopes on poor mounts tend to
discourage, so are really not the best way to try the hobby.

Best would be a dob reflector (e.g., 6 inch aperture) as a first foray.
You would see much more and it would not be a dead end investment.
See Orion XT-6 or equivalent.

Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?


Not all agree on that. Finding objects is "fun" if you can. But Go-To
scopes let you see more objects per hour.

making my own, is this still a possibility? does anyone know where to
get blanks for grinding a reflector? has anyone done this and can you
see the rings of Saturn? is there a lot involved in maintaining the
reflective material on the reflector of a home made reflector? I once
read something about coating with silver and having to polish it on a
regular basis. I presume this is not a problem with commercial models.


Check the ATM (amateur telescope making) forum at Cloudy Nights for much
discussion.

Just another thought on making my own. what are the limitations of
using a concave mirror (as available for bathrooms shaving mirrors etc)

Don't bother.

. I understand that they may have imprfections and there would be a
double image produced by the glass and the reflective material under
the glass, but how bad/good could they be? it is easy to get these up
to about 12 inches, even as an experiment for my son, is it worth
giving it a go?


No.

Phil

I can see the rings with my 20x80 binos, but they are better in my 4.25inch
f9 dob and totaly awesome in my 10inch f5 dob. But before even thinking
about a scope, why not infor yourself by reading :

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

"saramic" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I am looking at upgrading my binoculars to a telescope and have a few
questions. My initial aim would be to see the rings of Saturn. I live
in Melbourne Australia so there is a fair bit of light pollution.

what is the minimum scope that will distinguish the rings? 4 inch
reflector? 50 mm refractor?

how good are some of the cheap scopes going around at the moment? I am
talking of $30 specials and $50 reduced from $90 or so. There is also a
fair few on ebay. Will I be able to see saturn and the rings with one
of these (eg.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/L8249
). I am thinking of this option as a cheap way to try the hobby out and
then maybe upgrade later on.

Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?

making my own, is this still a possibility? does anyone know where to
get blanks for grinding a reflector? has anyone done this and can you
see the rings of Saturn? is there a lot involved in maintaining the
reflective material on the reflector of a home made reflector? I once
read something about coating with silver and having to polish it on a
regular basis. I presume this is not a problem with commercial models.

Just another thought on making my own. what are the limitations of
using a concave mirror (as available for bathrooms shaving mirrors etc)
. I understand that they may have imprfections and there would be a
double image produced by the glass and the reflective material under
the glass, but how bad/good could they be? it is easy to get these up
to about 12 inches, even as an experiment for my son, is it worth
giving it a go?

clear skies

saramic

Hi Saramic

I have used the 127-mm f/12.1 Maksutov from Orion telescopes for a few years
now, and it should produce the views you want. Look at the Saturn image at the
bottom of the page at:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res07oeg/id21.html

The visual view won't be as large (close to 350x to 400x in the image as opposed
to 120x visually) nor as colorful, but you should be able to resolve the Cassini
division, perhaps the darkening on the inside of the B ring, and the darkening
at the middle of the A ring. But no telescope that is portable is going to give
you much more than that with casual observing.

Good Luck !
--- Dave Nakamoto
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pinprick holes in a colorless sky
Let inspired figures of light pass by
The Mighty Light of ten thousand suns
Challenges infinity, and is soon gone




"saramic" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I am looking at upgrading my binoculars to a telescope and have a few
questions. My initial aim would be to see the rings of Saturn. I live
in Melbourne Australia so there is a fair bit of light pollution.

what is the minimum scope that will distinguish the rings? 4 inch
reflector? 50 mm refractor?

how good are some of the cheap scopes going around at the moment? I am
talking of $30 specials and $50 reduced from $90 or so. There is also a
fair few on ebay. Will I be able to see saturn and the rings with one
of these (eg.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/L8249
). I am thinking of this option as a cheap way to try the hobby out and
then maybe upgrade later on.

Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?

making my own, is this still a possibility? does anyone know where to
get blanks for grinding a reflector? has anyone done this and can you
see the rings of Saturn? is there a lot involved in maintaining the
reflective material on the reflector of a home made reflector? I once
read something about coating with silver and having to polish it on a
regular basis. I presume this is not a problem with commercial models.

Just another thought on making my own. what are the limitations of
using a concave mirror (as available for bathrooms shaving mirrors etc)
. I understand that they may have imprfections and there would be a
double image produced by the glass and the reflective material under
the glass, but how bad/good could they be? it is easy to get these up
to about 12 inches, even as an experiment for my son, is it worth
giving it a go?

clear skies

saramic

"Phil Wheeler" wrote in message
...
saramic wrote:

Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?


Not all agree on that. Finding objects is "fun" if you can. But Go-To
scopes let you see more objects per hour.

Give me the object list and some time to make Telrad finder charts and I'll
take that challenge. Let's say 10 bucks an object, loser pays the winner the
difference at an agreed upon ending time.

I just KNEW we could make this hobby even more interesting for us casual
observers.

;-)

*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

Stephen Paul wrote:

Give me the object list and some time to make Telrad finder charts


Oops, there would go my nap!

Stephen Paul wrote:

"Phil Wheeler" wrote in message
...

saramic wrote:


Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?


Not all agree on that. Finding objects is "fun" if you can. But Go-To
scopes let you see more objects per hour.


Give me the object list and some time to make Telrad finder charts and
I'll take that challenge. Let's say 10 bucks an object, loser pays the
winner the difference at an agreed upon ending time.

I just KNEW we could make this hobby even more interesting for us casual
observers.


But you would have to do it at my location, Steve. I'll even provide
the book of Telrad charts .. but first you have to see the stars in them

To be fair: Have you ever seen an Nexstar8GPS, properly aligned, do a
sky tour? Amazing what it will find and how fast, even in my crummy
skies! In dark skies it's awesome if measured in objects/hour (which is
NOT my favorite metric).

Phil

While I have nothing aginst goto scopes, I've wondered what's the big rush
to view many things per hour. When I'm set up for personal viewing, I enjoy
doing a slow scan of the sky and finding things myself.

BTW folks, if my typing makes little or no cents, it's because the doc
yesterday gave me for pain some zonkout pills, while the pain killer that's
the main carrier is almost useless to me, the added codrdine with it zonks
me out, I took the dose he said to yesterday and 6 hours later got up in a
fog, tody I'm only on 1 pill and don't dare drive anyplace.


--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords




"Phil Wheeler" wrote in message
...
Stephen Paul wrote:

"Phil Wheeler" wrote in message
...

saramic wrote:


Regarding upgrading, how good are the computerised scopes? I am sure
they are great but does it take away from the experience of "amateur"
astronomy and makes it a guided tour? is not finding objects in the sky
half the fun?


Not all agree on that. Finding objects is "fun" if you can. But Go-To
scopes let you see more objects per hour.


Give me the object list and some time to make Telrad finder charts and
I'll take that challenge. Let's say 10 bucks an object, loser pays the
winner the difference at an agreed upon ending time.

I just KNEW we could make this hobby even more interesting for us casual
observers.


But you would have to do it at my location, Steve. I'll even provide the
book of Telrad charts .. but first you have to see the stars in them

To be fair: Have you ever seen an Nexstar8GPS, properly aligned, do a sky
tour? Amazing what it will find and how fast, even in my crummy skies!
In dark skies it's awesome if measured in objects/hour (which is NOT my
favorite metric).

Phil

Starlord wrote:
While I have nothing aginst goto scopes, I've wondered what's the big rush
to view many things per hour. When I'm set up for personal viewing, I enjoy
doing a slow scan of the sky and finding things myself.


Depends on the situation. When I drove to Glacier Point in Yosemite and
set up, it was nice to get maximum use of the one evening I had there
that Fall.

And, with my liight polluted skies, the Telrad is fine for bright
objects but not so great for faint fuzzies .. since the guide stars are
very difficult to discern. Go-To will find the fuzzies here.

Your skies suffer from Lancaster and Palmdale. I have all of LA local
lights, too.

BTW folks, if my typing makes little or no cents, it's because the doc
yesterday gave me for pain some zonkout pills, while the pain killer that's
the main carrier is almost useless to me, the added codrdine with it zonks
me out, I took the dose he said to yesterday and 6 hours later got up in a
fog

Oh, oh .. I'm not seeing a change, Dennis grin

Phil

I just came out of the fog, it took me at lest an hour to fully get awake
and the 1/2 gal of coffee helped too. I was so out of it, that when we had a
sonic boom hit, I was up, out the door, into the driveway before it was
overwith and past and didn't even know what had happened. Oh it deaden the
pain, but in a way I don't care for, so I stick to one pill a day if any at
all.


--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords




"Phil Wheeler" wrote in message
...

Oh, oh .. I'm not seeing a change, Dennis grin

Phil