new (to me) scope; tips of bringing into use?

(summary: what the strange crud on
my focuser, and how/should I clean a mirror?)

I've always hankered after a telescope, and wandering
around a car boot sale (yeah, I know...) I saw
what I though was a bargain.

Nice 4 1/2" Newtonian Celestron FirstScope 114, with
some (claimed) extra accessories and books.

For which I paid the excessive amount of 120 GBP.

I know. Too much. I thought these things were *expensive*.
http://www.dhinds.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php?id=24

Darn.

Mine is clearly a little older, with a wooden tripod.
I was told it was owned by a "boy" who is now travelling
the world, and the telescope was used twice.

(spoilt brat!)

Anyway. From reading the instructions, it appears I have
the 1 1/4" focuser varient (there was a .96" variant).

But I have the lenses from both variants:
10mm SMA 1 1/4" #93372
25mm SMA 1 1/4" #93007-A
and
SR4mm .96"
H20mm .96"

I also have a strange .96 barlow 2x (2 parts?),
a 1 1/4" barlow 2x, and a "prime focus" camera adapter,
pictured he
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4ima...?image_id=2439

On initial assembly and trial, it all seems to work, which is a relief.

2 initial concerns.
1) The focusing rack (in yummy plastic) has some kind of sticky
stuff on it. On removing some, and doing some trials, it's
non-soluble in water and meths, and soluble in white spirit.
It's a clear substance.

I think it's congealed grease. What should I do with this?
It's certainly not a lubricant anymore...

2) The mirror appears fine in daylight, but when I looked
"down the tube" with a torch at night, there were spots
on the mirror and a really obvious (and I suspect boyish!)
fingerprint.

Again, what should I do? The mirror "end" has 3 philips screws
and 3 knurled nuts, so it looks as if it can be removed.

But I've heard complex things about "collimation" ...

My ambitions for the 'scope are fairly modest; look at the moon,
find the planets, see Saturn's rings, see Jupiter's planets,
and...

photographh some or all of the above with my Canon a510.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...canon_a510.asp
More questions on that topic may follow.

BugBear

bugbear wrote:
http://www.dhinds.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php?id=24

On line version of the manual.
http://www.astronomics.com/main/docu...cope%20114.pdf
(1203Kb, PDF)

Mine is the #31050

BugBear

Can anyone help with this? A couple of
"what do I do know questions" on a new
(unanticipated!) telescope.

(sorry - to uk.sci.astronomy readers - just X-posting to
get input from sci.astro.amateur, which I should
have done first-off)

BugBear

bugbear wrote:
(summary: what the strange crud on
my focuser, and how/should I clean a mirror?)

I've always hankered after a telescope, and wandering
around a car boot sale (yeah, I know...) I saw
what I though was a bargain.

Nice 4 1/2" Newtonian Celestron FirstScope 114, with
some (claimed) extra accessories and books.

For which I paid the excessive amount of 120 GBP.

I know. Too much. I thought these things were *expensive*.
http://www.dhinds.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php?id=24

Darn.

Mine is clearly a little older, with a wooden tripod.
I was told it was owned by a "boy" who is now travelling
the world, and the telescope was used twice.

(spoilt brat!)

Anyway. From reading the instructions, it appears I have
the 1 1/4" focuser varient (there was a .96" variant).

But I have the lenses from both variants:
10mm SMA 1 1/4" #93372
25mm SMA 1 1/4" #93007-A
and
SR4mm .96"
H20mm .96"

I also have a strange .96 barlow 2x (2 parts?),
a 1 1/4" barlow 2x, and a "prime focus" camera adapter,
pictured he
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4ima...?image_id=2439

On initial assembly and trial, it all seems to work, which is a relief.

2 initial concerns.
1) The focusing rack (in yummy plastic) has some kind of sticky
stuff on it. On removing some, and doing some trials, it's
non-soluble in water and meths, and soluble in white spirit.
It's a clear substance.

I think it's congealed grease. What should I do with this?
It's certainly not a lubricant anymore...

2) The mirror appears fine in daylight, but when I looked
"down the tube" with a torch at night, there were spots
on the mirror and a really obvious (and I suspect boyish!)
fingerprint.

Again, what should I do? The mirror "end" has 3 philips screws
and 3 knurled nuts, so it looks as if it can be removed.

But I've heard complex things about "collimation" ...

My ambitions for the 'scope are fairly modest; look at the moon,
find the planets, see Saturn's rings, see Jupiter's planets,
and...

photographh some or all of the above with my Canon a510.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...canon_a510.asp
More questions on that topic may follow.

BugBear

Hi!

I have to be brief because work is demanding my time today....
Don't clean the mirror. If you need a torch to see stuff on it, it's
nothing. Do a search (google) on collimation. Here's a great start:
http://www.andysshotglass.com/Collimating.html

The sticky grease is typical. It will clean with white solvent. Then put a
dab of white lithium grease.

Get a Rigel or Telrad finder and a good chart book or software (Skytools for
software, Sky Atlas 2000 for a book) When you tire of the 4.5", these
things will go with the new scope.

After you learn collimation and get your views as sharp as possible, clean
your mirror....but wait until late November. Mars is getting better every
day and there is a lot to see....you can clean the mirror when the weather
is foul and there is nothing else to do----and you'll be more comfortable
with the process....

Doink

"bugbear" wrote in message
...
Can anyone help with this? A couple of
"what do I do know questions" on a new
(unanticipated!) telescope.

(sorry - to uk.sci.astronomy readers - just X-posting to
get input from sci.astro.amateur, which I should
have done first-off)

BugBear

bugbear wrote:
(summary: what the strange crud on
my focuser, and how/should I clean a mirror?)

I've always hankered after a telescope, and wandering
around a car boot sale (yeah, I know...) I saw
what I though was a bargain.

Nice 4 1/2" Newtonian Celestron FirstScope 114, with
some (claimed) extra accessories and books.

For which I paid the excessive amount of 120 GBP.

I know. Too much. I thought these things were *expensive*.
http://www.dhinds.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php?id=24

Darn.

Mine is clearly a little older, with a wooden tripod.
I was told it was owned by a "boy" who is now travelling
the world, and the telescope was used twice.

(spoilt brat!)

Anyway. From reading the instructions, it appears I have
the 1 1/4" focuser varient (there was a .96" variant).

But I have the lenses from both variants:
10mm SMA 1 1/4" #93372
25mm SMA 1 1/4" #93007-A
and
SR4mm .96"
H20mm .96"

I also have a strange .96 barlow 2x (2 parts?),
a 1 1/4" barlow 2x, and a "prime focus" camera adapter,
pictured he
http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4ima...?image_id=2439

On initial assembly and trial, it all seems to work, which is a relief.

2 initial concerns.
1) The focusing rack (in yummy plastic) has some kind of sticky
stuff on it. On removing some, and doing some trials, it's
non-soluble in water and meths, and soluble in white spirit.
It's a clear substance.

I think it's congealed grease. What should I do with this?
It's certainly not a lubricant anymore...

2) The mirror appears fine in daylight, but when I looked
"down the tube" with a torch at night, there were spots
on the mirror and a really obvious (and I suspect boyish!)
fingerprint.

Again, what should I do? The mirror "end" has 3 philips screws
and 3 knurled nuts, so it looks as if it can be removed.

But I've heard complex things about "collimation" ...

My ambitions for the 'scope are fairly modest; look at the moon,
find the planets, see Saturn's rings, see Jupiter's planets,
and...

photographh some or all of the above with my Canon a510.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...canon_a510.asp
More questions on that topic may follow.

BugBear

Doink wrote:
Hi!

I have to be brief because work is demanding my time today....

All information is more than I've paid you for ;-)
I appreciate your time.

Don't clean the mirror. If you need a torch to see stuff on it, it's
nothing. Do a search (google) on collimation. Here's a great start:
http://www.andysshotglass.com/Collimating.html

O.K. That lies a little in my future, but I've bookmarked the link.

The sticky grease is typical. It will clean with white solvent. Then put a
dab of white lithium grease.

By "white solvent" do you mean "paint thinners" AKA "white spirit" (UK)
AKA "turpentine substitute" ?


Get a Rigel or Telrad finder and a good chart book or software (Skytools for
software, Sky Atlas 2000 for a book) When you tire of the 4.5", these
things will go with the new scope.

After you learn collimation and get your views as sharp as possible, clean
your mirror....but wait until late November. Mars is getting better every
day and there is a lot to see....you can clean the mirror

And ...

Chuck Taylor wrote:

Never shine a torch down the tube of a telescope. It will always look
awful.

Ah - so that exagerated the dirtiness. The telescope certainly
seemed to be functioning (in the sense that I could see stars)
when I took it out.

As yet, I need to line up the (cheap) finder-scope, and work
out how to operate the equitorial mount without
having to think so hard!

I've yet to have a cloud free night with a moon showing, so
I'm looking forward to that.

Thanks to all (both!) for the information.

Questions on digicam astrophotography will be
forthcoming in time...

BugBear

BugBear

"bugbear" wrote in message
...
As yet, I need to line up the (cheap) finder-scope, and work
out how to operate the equitorial mount without
having to think so hard!

http://www.astronomyboy.com/eq/

David

bugbear wrote:
Can anyone help with this?
1) The focusing rack (in yummy plastic) has some kind of sticky
stuff on it. On removing some, and doing some trials, it's
non-soluble in water and meths, and soluble in white spirit.

I think it's congealed grease. What should I do with this?
It's certainly not a lubricant anymore...

If it is not glue to hold it together, clean it off. If it is
on the works as a lubricant, replace it with grease.

2) The mirror appears fine in daylight, but when I looked
"down the tube" with a torch at night, there were spots
on the mirror and a really obvious (and I suspect boyish!)
fingerprint.

Never shine a torch down the tube of a telescope. It will
always look awful. As to cleaning --- yes you can remove the
mirror. Once you take the cell out of the tube, you can remove
the mirror from the cell.

Cleaning options include compressed air, but not the stuff in
the computer shops as that can leave a residue. A bulb blower
works nice for blowing dust off of smaller optics like the
eyepieces.

You can also run water over it. If that does not remove
something, you can soak it in a very weak soapy water
solution. You must use little soap and rinse *very* thoroughly
as you do not want any soap film on it.

You need to be very careful in handling it. The glass itself
is hard, but the reflective coating is extremely thin and
therefore quite fragile.

If you do need to clean something more thoroughly, use
surgical cotton. Holding it under water, gently wipe with the
cotton, rotating the cotton so that any dust etc that the
cotton picks up is rotated away from the mirror so it can't
produce scratches.

That said, here is the most important part: Never wash your
mirror unless you absolutely have to. The second most
important rule is that the mirror can handle a lot more dust
on the surface than you think. A dirty mirror will work much
better than a mirror covered with tiny scratches from frequent
cleanings.

Again, what should I do? The mirror "end" has 3 philips screws
and 3 knurled nuts, so it looks as if it can be removed.

But I've heard complex things about "collimation" ...

Collimation is something you need to learn as it is probably
not collimated now and will need to be collimated from time to
time. But it is not hard. You can find a link to collimation
at http://skyandtelescope.com/howto/scopes/ along with a link
to an article on cleaning. I should add that in the article on
cleaning, there is a picture of cleaning a large pro mirror.
They are being pretty aggressive, but notice that the aluminum
coating has been removed and it is being cleaned prior to
re-aluminzing it. It is this coating which is extremely
fragile. Since you are not removing your coating each time you
clean it, you need to be *much* more gentle than they are.

Hope this helps

Chuck Taylor
*********************************************
Do you observe the moon? If so, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

If you enjoy optics, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/
*********************************************

Chuck Taylor wrote:

Never shine a torch down the tube of a telescope. It will always look
awful. As to cleaning --- yes you can remove the mirror. Once you take
the cell out of the tube, you can remove the mirror from the cell.

Cleaning options include compressed air, but not the stuff in the
computer shops as that can leave a residue. A bulb blower works nice for
blowing dust off of smaller optics like the eyepieces.

You can also run water over it. If that does not remove something, you
can soak it in a very weak soapy water solution. You must use little
soap and rinse *very* thoroughly as you do not want any soap film on it.

You need to be very careful in handling it. The glass itself is hard,
but the reflective coating is extremely thin and therefore quite fragile.

If you do need to clean something more thoroughly, use surgical cotton.
Holding it under water, gently wipe with the cotton, rotating the cotton
so that any dust etc that the cotton picks up is rotated away from the
mirror so it can't produce scratches.

That said, here is the most important part: Never wash your mirror
unless you absolutely have to. The second most important rule is that
the mirror can handle a lot more dust on the surface than you think. A
dirty mirror will work much better than a mirror covered with tiny
scratches from frequent cleanings.

Again, what should I do? The mirror "end" has 3 philips screws
and 3 knurled nuts, so it looks as if it can be removed.

But I've heard complex things about "collimation" ...


Collimation is something you need to learn as it is probably not
collimated now and will need to be collimated from time to time. But it
is not hard. You can find a link to collimation at
http://skyandtelescope.com/howto/scopes/ along with a link to an article
on cleaning. I should add that in the article on cleaning, there is a
picture of cleaning a large pro mirror. They are being pretty
aggressive, but notice that the aluminum coating has been removed and it
is being cleaned prior to re-aluminzing it. It is this coating which is
extremely fragile. Since you are not removing your coating each time you
clean it, you need to be *much* more gentle than they are.

Hope this helps

Chuck Taylor
*********************************************
Do you observe the moon? If so, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/

If you enjoy optics, try
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATM_Optics_Software/
*********************************************

bugbear wrote:
Chuck Taylor wrote:
(good stuff)

and I clicked reply-send
without adding anything.

Sorry - finger trouble!

BugBear

No problem.

And collimation is not difficult. You'll get good at it by doing it a
couple times and you will see results. Really. And do get a Telrad or
Rigel finder---not a finder scope. When you're starting out, a Telrad makes
the whole experience easier and more enjoyable...promise. And, ifyou get
another telescope, you can use it on that one...Rigels come with 2
bases....look at Astrosystems.biz His Rigels use AA batteries. MUCH
better.

Yes, standard paint thinner will cut that sticky stuff but be sure and tip
the tube so it doesn't run down to the mirror.

EQ mounts get easier with practice. Learn to embrace the tube and dance
with the mount---seriously. You'll come to appreciate the tracking ease if
you start with a decent eyeball polar alignment...visual alinment is enough.
Make sure you've set your latitude on the mount.

Take care...
Email me directly if you'd like. Happy to help....
lancha at ix.netcom dot com (do some repairs and it will work---have to
dodge the spammers)

Doink

"bugbear" wrote in message
...
bugbear wrote:
Chuck Taylor wrote:
(good stuff)

and I clicked reply-send
without adding anything.

Sorry - finger trouble!

BugBear