Shuttle tile repair in space, Why not?

OK here is the scenario. Shuttle takes off and on the way up 3 leading
edge wing tiles get hit. They take the shuttle to the ISS. Run the
imaging system over it, perform a spacewalk and decided which three
tiles are really damaged. They send this info back to the ground.

Why wouldn't it be possible to have new tiles made up on the ground and
then shipped up on a supply mission OR on a Russian ship? They must
have all of the dimensions for those tiles in the CNC machine files they
use to make the original one, or in a book someplace correct? They
bring them up and do a spacewalk to remove the damaged tiles and then
bond the new tiles in place the same way the do when the shuttle is on
the ground.

Ok . Why wouldn't this work? Bonding agent for the tiles won't cure in
space? Impossible to remove only the damaged tiles? Sensors behind the
tile that are damaged? (replacements could be sent up with the tiles)

--
Steve Williams



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Steve W." wrote in
:

OK here is the scenario. Shuttle takes off and on the way up 3 leading
edge wing tiles get hit.

Do you mean tiles or RCC panels? The wing leading edge uses the latter,
not the former.

They take the shuttle to the ISS. Run the
imaging system over it, perform a spacewalk and decided which three
tiles are really damaged. They send this info back to the ground.

Why wouldn't it be possible to have new tiles made up on the ground
and then shipped up on a supply mission OR on a Russian ship?

What "supply mission" are you referring to *other* than a Russian ship?
At this point, a Russian Progress is your only choice. The Russians
don't stockpile those things; unless there *happened* to be one
scheduled within a few weeks of the launch of the damaged shuttle, they
won't be able to get one there in time. Using a second shuttle isn't an
option because ISS can't accommodate two at once; the damaged shuttle
must be disposed of before the second one can dock.

They must
have all of the dimensions for those tiles in the CNC machine files
they use to make the original one, or in a book someplace correct?

RCC panels are long-lead items; you'd have to scavenge one from another
orbiter. Tiles can be done more quickly but I'm still not optimistic
they could be made in time.

They
bring them up and do a spacewalk to remove the damaged tiles and then
bond the new tiles in place the same way the do when the shuttle is on
the ground.

Ok . Why wouldn't this work? Bonding agent for the tiles won't cure
in space? Impossible to remove only the damaged tiles? Sensors behind
the tile that are damaged? (replacements could be sent up with the
tiles)

RCC panels can't be installed in space (the access panels are simply not
EVA-accessible).

You'd have a better shot simply using the tile and RCC repair materials
that are already carried onboard, at least once they're validated by
flight test.


--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

RCC panels are long-lead items; you'd have to scavenge one from another
orbiter. Tiles can be done more quickly but I'm still not optimistic
they could be made in time.

What is the time limiting factor about making the tiles, and what the time
limit of staying at the ISS to await it?

- Carsten

"C.P Kurz" wrote in
:


RCC panels are long-lead items; you'd have to scavenge one from
another orbiter. Tiles can be done more quickly but I'm still not
optimistic they could be made in time.

What is the time limiting factor about making the tiles, and what the
time limit of staying at the ISS to await it?

I don't know the former; the latter is around 30-45 days, depending on crew
size, the state of ISS consumables, and how early the emergency is
declared.

It's a moot point since there's no way to get the tiles to the station in
time.


--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

The lack of emergency parts to orbit capacity may well cost us ISS
someday.....

Jorge R. Frank schrieb:

I don't know the former; the latter is around 30-45 days, depending on crew
size, the state of ISS consumables, and how early the emergency is
declared.

It's a moot point since there's no way to get the tiles to the station in
time.

Wondering if they would actually fly up there just to hand over a FedEx box
with tiles.('Eileen! New tiles! Would you please EVA to sign?!')


How delicate are these tiles really? People seem to be frightened to even touch
them with their hands.

Has the tile repair kit been discussed somewhere, what parts and procedures it
contains?

- Carsten

Hi, I have a tile (a gift from a grandparent who had a neighbor that worked
for NASA's publications dept in the mid 80's) and I can tell you that they
are pretty fragile. Mine is missing all but patches of the black coating
on 5 or 6 faces, and the corners are eroded.

Since I recieve this when I was young (and stupid) I even poked a pen into
it. the resistance that the silica material puts up is very very minimal.

Think of the energy it would take you to poke your finger through a dry
paper towel. That's about the energy you need to bust up the outer coating
and gouge a good sized hole in the tile.

Okay, now consider that damage to your TPS could be fatal during
reentry--you just can't take a chance

Tell you what, do this, go diving with a friend and start playing with a
knife near their airhose. Or better imagine someone playing with a knife
near your air hose. Try to have an attitude like that when are viewing the
replays of the EVA.

Yes, it's that critical.



"C.P Kurz" wrote in message
...
Jorge R. Frank schrieb:

I don't know the former; the latter is around 30-45 days, depending on
crew size, the state of ISS consumables, and how early the emergency is
declared.

It's a moot point since there's no way to get the tiles to the station in
time.

Wondering if they would actually fly up there just to hand over a FedEx
box with tiles.('Eileen! New tiles! Would you please EVA to sign?!')


How delicate are these tiles really? People seem to be frightened to even
touch them with their hands.

Has the tile repair kit been discussed somewhere, what parts and
procedures it contains?

- Carsten

Jorge R. Frank wrote:
"C.P Kurz" wrote in
:


RCC panels are long-lead items; you'd have to scavenge one from
another orbiter. Tiles can be done more quickly but I'm still not
optimistic they could be made in time.

What is the time limiting factor about making the tiles, and what the
time limit of staying at the ISS to await it?

I don't know the former; the latter is around 30-45 days, depending on crew
size, the state of ISS consumables, and how early the emergency is
declared.

It's a moot point since there's no way to get the tiles to the station in
time.

Neglecting politics.
Anyone have a ballpark about how much it'd cost to pay the russians to
keep a progress ready for launch on a weeks notice?

Is it as simple as buying one extra, to keep on the pad till the next
one is ready?

On 11 Aug 2005 20:21:06 -0700, "Bob Haller" wrote:

The lack of emergency parts to orbit capacity may well cost us ISS
someday.....

Maybe, but the longer we wait for such an event, the less likely it is
to happen. With Progress, ATV, HTV, and Shuttle either available or
coming online in the next couple of years, and the unmanned CEV
Freighter early next decade, the odds start to fall quick that none of
them would be available, or close to it, for an emergency resupply
mission at any given time.

In the meantime, ISS should be outfitted with as much spares as
possible, something STS-114 just went a long way toward accomplishing.

Brian

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:40:47 +0200, "C.P Kurz"
wrote:

How delicate are these tiles really? People seem to be frightened to even touch
them with their hands.

Think styrofoam with a thin coating of paint. The tile foam is
denser, but no stronger.

Some of us were looking at Columbia after the first landing, even
poking the damaged tiles, until we got a nasty look and a tight-lipped
"We don't touch the tiles...ever." Shortly thereafter they really
tightened up access to Area A.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
or