TRAIN WRECK!!!

Below is a post which Bill Meyers submitted to Astromart's "Equipment Talk"
forum on 3/2/05. The subject of the post is "How about informative titles
for posts?" I hope that the referenced calamity produced no serious
injuries. My eyes do appear to be somewhat bruised but I don't seem to
suffer any gashes and have no broken bones.

snip
Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of rant).
unsnip


--
Martin R. Howell
"Photographs From the Universe of Amateur Astronomy"
http://members.isp.com/universeofama...nomy%40isp.com

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:25:49 -0800, "Martin R. Howell"
wrote:


Below is a post which Bill Meyers submitted to Astromart's "Equipment Talk"
forum on 3/2/05. The subject of the post is "How about informative titles
for posts?" I hope that the referenced calamity produced no serious
injuries. My eyes do appear to be somewhat bruised but I don't seem to
suffer any gashes and have no broken bones.

snip
Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of rant).
unsnip

He's obviously an idiot who is too lazy or dull to avoid the bad
posts.
-Rich

Rich,
Your reply expresses very well your quality of mind.
Bill Meyers

RichA wrote:
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:25:49 -0800, "Martin R. Howell"
wrote:


Below is a post which Bill Meyers submitted to Astromart's "Equipment Talk"
forum on 3/2/05. The subject of the post is "How about informative titles
for posts?" I hope that the referenced calamity produced no serious
injuries. My eyes do appear to be somewhat bruised but I don't seem to
suffer any gashes and have no broken bones.

snip
Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of rant).
unsnip


He's obviously an idiot who is too lazy or dull to avoid the bad
posts.
-Rich

Martin R. Howell:

Below is a post which Bill Meyers submitted to Astromart's "Equipment Talk"
forum on 3/2/05. The subject of the post is "How about informative titles
for posts?" I hope that the referenced calamity produced no serious
injuries. My eyes do appear to be somewhat bruised but I don't seem to
suffer any gashes and have no broken bones.

snip
Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of rant).
unsnip

I think that rumors of SAA's death are somewhat exaggerated. Looking at
the latest posts, I see Trapezium, Sidereal Time, Microfiche Lenses for
use in positive astroprojection, Observing Projects, "A weight matter"
(telescope balance), Advanced Astromaster problem, Antares Occultation
Report, Konus 150 refractor, and other stuff that interests me to
varying degrees.

I won't read "CNN tanking as Fox News surges" from "Anonymous" because
it has Min the Psychopath written all over it. Not only will I not read
it, but I won't worry about its presence.

What I don't see are any broken locomotives or wrecked tank cars
spilling noxious chemicals around my computer :-

Davoud

For a year or so there, SAA was going toward the silly and inane, but it
seems to have improved significantly lately.


"Davoud" wrote in message
...
Martin R. Howell:

Below is a post which Bill Meyers submitted to Astromart's "Equipment
Talk"
forum on 3/2/05. The subject of the post is "How about informative
titles
for posts?" I hope that the referenced calamity produced no serious
injuries. My eyes do appear to be somewhat bruised but I don't seem to
suffer any gashes and have no broken bones.

snip
Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of
rant).
unsnip

I think that rumors of SAA's death are somewhat exaggerated. Looking at
the latest posts, I see Trapezium, Sidereal Time, Microfiche Lenses for
use in positive astroprojection, Observing Projects, "A weight matter"
(telescope balance), Advanced Astromaster problem, Antares Occultation
Report, Konus 150 refractor, and other stuff that interests me to
varying degrees.

I won't read "CNN tanking as Fox News surges" from "Anonymous" because
it has Min the Psychopath written all over it. Not only will I not read
it, but I won't worry about its presence.

What I don't see are any broken locomotives or wrecked tank cars
spilling noxious chemicals around my computer :-

Davoud

Davoud,
My commnet about a train wreck stung, and (to mix the metaphor
further!) people are rallying around the flag, which is a good thing.
Maybe SAA can be rescued.
One thing SAA has going for it is its size. It reaches a vast
number of people, probably far more than any other forum.
Another plus is that there are about three dozen very worthwhile
frequent posters, of whom at least a dozen are experts of one sort or
another, either optical or observational.
There is no doubt in my mind that we have experienced a train
wreck in the form of a flood (another mixed metaphor) of off topic and
spammed postings. The signal to noise ratio is very much higer in the
moderated forums. They are therefore easier and pleasanter to read.
Somc of the moderated forums seem to be owned by manufacturers,
who may impose censorhip, or managed by enthusiasts who screen out
dissident voices. But many have owners or moderators who are quite
independent. Many of our SAA experts also post on these other forums so
they are available there also.
The other forums are much more civil, with no name-calling or
other slurs.
I agree very much with Howard Lester's comment in this thread
lamentng the large number of truly excellent posters who have left,
tiring of the spam, the off-topic political and religious posts, and the
lack of civility in some of the on-topic posts.
I have read SAA for many years and have posted here much of that
time and have some good friends here, soee excellent people, but I have
noticed the flood of spqm and off topic posts. It was so much better in
the days when we had only Min and Shawn to contend with.
I have been sorry to see us go in the direction of sci.astro,
which was destroyed by the kinds of posts we see appearing here. If my
comment stirs people to take action to preserve SAA, I am glad I made it
and I don't mind the flak it elicied.
We used to be the premier amateur astronomy forum on the
Internet, and it would be great if we could recover that position.
Bill Meyers


Davoud wrote:

Martin R. Howell:


Below is a post which Bill Meyers submitted to Astromart's "Equipment Talk"
forum on 3/2/05. The subject of the post is "How about informative titles
for posts?" I hope that the referenced calamity produced no serious
injuries. My eyes do appear to be somewhat bruised but I don't seem to
suffer any gashes and have no broken bones.

snip
Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of rant).
unsnip


I think that rumors of SAA's death are somewhat exaggerated. Looking at
the latest posts, I see Trapezium, Sidereal Time, Microfiche Lenses for
use in positive astroprojection, Observing Projects, "A weight matter"
(telescope balance), Advanced Astromaster problem, Antares Occultation
Report, Konus 150 refractor, and other stuff that interests me to
varying degrees.

I won't read "CNN tanking as Fox News surges" from "Anonymous" because
it has Min the Psychopath written all over it. Not only will I not read
it, but I won't worry about its presence.

What I don't see are any broken locomotives or wrecked tank cars
spilling noxious chemicals around my computer :-

Davoud

Davoud:
I think that rumors of SAA's death are somewhat exaggerated. Looking at
the latest posts, I see Trapezium, Sidereal Time, Microfiche Lenses for
use in positive astroprojection, Observing Projects, "A weight matter"
(telescope balance), Advanced Astromaster problem, Antares Occultation
Report, Konus 150 refractor...

Bill Meyers:
My commnet about a train wreck stung, and (to mix the metaphor
further!) people are rallying around the flag, which is a good thing.
Maybe SAA can be rescued...

Well, OK, but I still don't understand why people are compelled to read
and respond to OT posts. Yes, I've been guilty -- along with many of
the highly regarded long time participants. I'm working on cleaning up
my act by not posting when I have nothing to say. I don't initiate Mac
vs. Windows threads*, I didn't say nearly as much as I would have liked
in the "evolution**" thread, and I sincerely believed that my recent
post reporting that Charles Towns, the Nobel laureate who helped invent
the laser, had been awarded the Templeton Prize for "advancing
knowledge in matters relating to science and religion" was on-topic and
of interest to some people here. That post contained only the facts of
the matter, and no opinions on religion or any other subject. I was
mistaken. We live and learn.

I don't limit my killfiling to OT posts; without malice or prejudice, I
will kill a post with a subject such as "Which Eyepiece for my Newt"
because I don't have a Newt and I'm simply not interested. Such a post
is OT -- for me.

* Sorry, folks, but I'm going to continue to post when I update my
"Macs in Amateur Astronomy" web page. This page has generated a great
number of e-mails from Mac-using amateurs from all over, including, to
my surprise, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Turkey, and Morocco,
virtually all of whom said that they were helped by the page. I would
note that many of the Mac/Windows threads are initiated by Windows
users who know nothing about Macs and who throw out some ridiculous
assertion "Macs can't access the Internet, can't run word processors,
have more viruses that Windows, can't this or that" that sends maqueros
into a rage; or they are initiated by Windows users who know nothing
about Macs but are somehow inflamed by the mere mention of a Mac,
however inocuous that mention may be.

** Here it is: rejection of evolution is *often* based on racism. The
last straw for many religiious racists was the revelation that mankind
originated in East Africa. I've lived in the south, and I know how
these religious racists talk when they think they're surrounded by
like-minded people. I have heard, in an anti-evolution sermon in a
church of the Southern Baptist Convention "We know what kind of monkeys
come from Africa..." (so there is no way that the white race could have
come from Africa) and similar hate speech.

I come back to "if it's OT *for you* don't read it." I gotta wonder --
a person who gets all lathered up when they see an OT post -- suppose
they drive a Honda. Do they get lathered up when they see a Toyota on
the road, or do they just keep driving along, minding their own
business?

Davoud

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:25:49 -0800, "Martin R. Howell"
wrote:

Come on, guys, shape up! This is a great forum. Let's keep it that way.
Look at what happened to sci.astro.amateur, which used to be the premium
forum and now is, in the words of one poster, a train wreck. (end of rant).

This from somebody who I guess has never seen a train wreck!

Looking over the last week of postings (all of which I have retained), I
see that there are 107 threads, of which 88 are absolutely topical and
appropriate to s.a.a. Of the remaining 19 threads, 4 are the same but
didn't get threaded properly, 3 are rants like this, and a handful are
semi-topical humor. Another handful are marginally topical. Only a few
of the topical threads appear to have been hijacked or otherwise
deviated from topicality in a major way. And IMO, the vast majority of
the topic titles do a fine job of defining the thread.

So that means at least 82% of the threads are topical, and higher if we
give a little latitude. Seems pretty darn good to me.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

So that means at least 82% of the threads are topical, and higher if we
give a little latitude. Seems pretty darn good to me.

I look at quality, not quantity. Based on what I've seen/not seen in the
past bunch of years, some really "good" contributors left s.a.a due to its
increasing inanity. To me, then, what is significant is who we've lost.

Howard Lester

"Howard Lester" wrote in message
...
So that means at least 82% of the threads are topical, and higher if we
give a little latitude. Seems pretty darn good to me.

I look at quality, not quantity. Based on what I've seen/not seen in the
past bunch of years, some really "good" contributors left s.a.a due to its
increasing inanity. To me, then, what is significant is who we've lost.

Howard Lester


Come on, Howard, don't dwell on the past - be a forward thinker. You're not
looking forward to a forum featuring Min and Davoud debating politics and
religion? Get with the program.

;^)
Ed T.