The RCS: Voice Transcript

Quote (all times ZULU):
23:06:47 Ed: That's affirm, twelve gray bars.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25 A & C Roll, Main A and B open.
23:07:23: CMP: They're open
MSTC: B & D roll Main A & B open.
:28 CMP: B roll is open.
MSTC: Main B open.
:33 CMP: Main B
MSTC: Yaw Main A & B open.
:40 CMP: B open
MSTC: Verify pitch main A is closed
CMP: Pitch Main A is closed.
MSTC: Panel 8, your SCS channel pitch to on.
:50 CMP: Pitch is on.
MSTC: A & C, B & D roll to off.
:55: CMP: A & C, B & D roll is off.
:59 MSTC: Yaw to off
CMP: Yaw to off.
MSTC: RCS command to on.
23:08:04 CMP: RCS command is on.
MSTC: Position not more than a second.
:28 MSTC: Unpin your rotation controller.
:33 CMP: It's unpinned
MSTC: Give us a minus pitch.
:38 CMP: Roger, minus pitch.
MSTC: OK, give us a plus pitch.
MRCS: Camera is go.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25, RCS pitch Main A to open.
23:09:01 CMP: It's open.
MSTC: Yaw Main B to close.
:6 CMP: Yaw Main B closed.
MSTC: Panel 8 SCS channel pitch is off.
:12 CMP: Pitch is off.
MSTC: Yaw on.
:16 CMP: Yaw on.
MSTC: Give us a minus yaw.
MSTC: Give us a plus yaw.
:37 CMP: Did you get plus yaw?
MSTC: Roger, give us a plus yaw.
:41 CMP: I did.
:45 CMP: I'll give you one more.
And so on.
Like I said, get your facts straight. They DID conduct Static Fire;
otherwise, what was the point of the test????

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Quote (all times ZULU):
23:06:47 Ed: That's affirm, twelve gray bars.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25 A & C Roll, Main A and B open.
23:07:23: CMP: They're open
MSTC: B & D roll Main A & B open.
:28 CMP: B roll is open.
MSTC: Main B open.
:33 CMP: Main B
MSTC: Yaw Main A & B open.
:40 CMP: B open
MSTC: Verify pitch main A is closed
CMP: Pitch Main A is closed.
MSTC: Panel 8, your SCS channel pitch to on.
:50 CMP: Pitch is on.
MSTC: A & C, B & D roll to off.
:55: CMP: A & C, B & D roll is off.
:59 MSTC: Yaw to off
CMP: Yaw to off.
MSTC: RCS command to on.
23:08:04 CMP: RCS command is on.
MSTC: Position not more than a second.
:28 MSTC: Unpin your rotation controller.
:33 CMP: It's unpinned
MSTC: Give us a minus pitch.
:38 CMP: Roger, minus pitch.
MSTC: OK, give us a plus pitch.
MRCS: Camera is go.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25, RCS pitch Main A to open.
23:09:01 CMP: It's open.
MSTC: Yaw Main B to close.
:6 CMP: Yaw Main B closed.
MSTC: Panel 8 SCS channel pitch is off.
:12 CMP: Pitch is off.
MSTC: Yaw on.
:16 CMP: Yaw on.
MSTC: Give us a minus yaw.
MSTC: Give us a plus yaw.
:37 CMP: Did you get plus yaw?
MSTC: Roger, give us a plus yaw.
:41 CMP: I did.
:45 CMP: I'll give you one more.
And so on.

Why don't you provide a verifiable reference?

They DID conduct Static Fire

Which does NOT mean that a thruster actually fired.

otherwise, what was the point of the test????

To train, of course.

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Quote (all times ZULU):
23:06:47 Ed: That's affirm, twelve gray bars.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25 A & C Roll, Main A and B open.
23:07:23: CMP: They're open
MSTC: B & D roll Main A & B open.
:28 CMP: B roll is open.
MSTC: Main B open.
:33 CMP: Main B
MSTC: Yaw Main A & B open.
:40 CMP: B open
MSTC: Verify pitch main A is closed
CMP: Pitch Main A is closed.
MSTC: Panel 8, your SCS channel pitch to on.
:50 CMP: Pitch is on.
MSTC: A & C, B & D roll to off.
:55: CMP: A & C, B & D roll is off.
:59 MSTC: Yaw to off
CMP: Yaw to off.
MSTC: RCS command to on.
23:08:04 CMP: RCS command is on.
MSTC: Position not more than a second.
:28 MSTC: Unpin your rotation controller.
:33 CMP: It's unpinned
MSTC: Give us a minus pitch.
:38 CMP: Roger, minus pitch.
MSTC: OK, give us a plus pitch.
MRCS: Camera is go.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25, RCS pitch Main A to open.
23:09:01 CMP: It's open.
MSTC: Yaw Main B to close.
:6 CMP: Yaw Main B closed.
MSTC: Panel 8 SCS channel pitch is off.
:12 CMP: Pitch is off.
MSTC: Yaw on.
:16 CMP: Yaw on.
MSTC: Give us a minus yaw.
MSTC: Give us a plus yaw.
:37 CMP: Did you get plus yaw?
MSTC: Roger, give us a plus yaw.
:41 CMP: I did.
:45 CMP: I'll give you one more.
And so on.
Like I said, get your facts straight. They DID conduct Static Fire;
otherwise, what was the point of the test????

Testing crew procedures? Testing the portion of the control path that is
upstream of the SM (i.e., contained in the CM). I don't know off hand where
the control was split from that actually leading to the RCS, but you can
test the upstream portion. Did you know that before each launch KSC launch
control practiced multiple launches including activation of all circuits
including the ignitors (actual ignitors were disconnected) without actually
conducting a "Static Fire". This was a test of the space ship electronics,
and there was no need to actually fire the thrusters.

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message ...
"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Quote (all times ZULU):
23:06:47 Ed: That's affirm, twelve gray bars.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25 A & C Roll, Main A and B open.
23:07:23: CMP: They're open
MSTC: B & D roll Main A & B open.
:28 CMP: B roll is open.
MSTC: Main B open.
:33 CMP: Main B
MSTC: Yaw Main A & B open.
:40 CMP: B open
MSTC: Verify pitch main A is closed
CMP: Pitch Main A is closed.
MSTC: Panel 8, your SCS channel pitch to on.
:50 CMP: Pitch is on.
MSTC: A & C, B & D roll to off.
:55: CMP: A & C, B & D roll is off.
:59 MSTC: Yaw to off
CMP: Yaw to off.
MSTC: RCS command to on.
23:08:04 CMP: RCS command is on.
MSTC: Position not more than a second.
:28 MSTC: Unpin your rotation controller.
:33 CMP: It's unpinned
MSTC: Give us a minus pitch.
:38 CMP: Roger, minus pitch.
MSTC: OK, give us a plus pitch.
MRCS: Camera is go.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25, RCS pitch Main A to open.
23:09:01 CMP: It's open.
MSTC: Yaw Main B to close.
:6 CMP: Yaw Main B closed.
MSTC: Panel 8 SCS channel pitch is off.
:12 CMP: Pitch is off.
MSTC: Yaw on.
:16 CMP: Yaw on.
MSTC: Give us a minus yaw.
MSTC: Give us a plus yaw.
:37 CMP: Did you get plus yaw?
MSTC: Roger, give us a plus yaw.
:41 CMP: I did.
:45 CMP: I'll give you one more.
And so on.
Like I said, get your facts straight. They DID conduct Static Fire;
otherwise, what was the point of the test????

Testing crew procedures? Testing the portion of the control path that is
upstream of the SM (i.e., contained in the CM). I don't know off hand where
the control was split from that actually leading to the RCS, but you can
test the upstream portion. Did you know that before each launch KSC launch
control practiced multiple launches including activation of all circuits
including the ignitors (actual ignitors were disconnected) without actually
conducting a "Static Fire". This was a test of the space ship electronics,
and there was no need to actually fire the thrusters.

Yes, but they WERE firing the thrusters (pulsing them is the proper
word.) They had to open those valves and ensure everything in the
thruster was working properly. As I'm sure you realize, there's
really not much point to a Plugs-Out Test and/or CDDT if you do not
test the systems. This is not a simulator; they can't wait until they
actually launch to make sure the RCS is functioning properly. They
must (and DO) test the spacecraft--sans cryogenics--to ensure proper
operation.
By the way, thank you for an intelligent reply.
LaDonna

LaDonna Wyss wrote:
test the systems. This is not a simulator; they can't wait until they
actually launch to make sure the RCS is functioning properly. They
must (and DO) test the spacecraft--sans cryogenics--to ensure proper
operation.

The RCS isn't cryogenic. It is hypergolic. Do you know how the
spacecraft works? It doesn't seem as though you do.

Sam

(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:
Yes, but they WERE firing the thrusters (pulsing them is the proper
word.)

They were niether firing. nor pulsing them as the CM control systems
were not tied into the SM RCS system, rather the CM systems were
connected to simulators.

They had to open those valves and ensure everything in the
thruster was working properly.

Which was impossible to do on the day of the fire, because as noted
above and elsewhere, the valves and thrusters were not connected to
the CM systems.

As I'm sure you realize, there's really not much point to a Plugs-Out Test
and/or CDDT if you do not test the systems. This is not a simulator; they
can't wait until they actually launch to make sure the RCS is functioning
properly. This is not a simulator; they can't wait until they actually launch
to make sure the RCS is functioning properly. They must (and DO) test the
spacecraft--sans cryogenics--to ensure proper operation.

The point of any test of this nature is to, so far as is possible, to
demonstrate that the hardware is functional. However, the trick is to
decide very carefully what can and cannot be simulated, and the
effects of simulations on the validity of the test.

It's not a simple procedure as some things cannot be tested properly
in some configurations, some may represent a hazard to personell or
equipment, etc.. (For example, in the Plugs Out/CCDT tests the
various pyro's in the stack are not armed.) Thus your claim that
'this is not a simulator' is partially false as actions like fueling
and arming the pyros are certainly simulated.

Also, the Plugs-out and CCDT tests were far from the only tests
performed. It's quite possible to verify RCS functioning via a
seperate standalone test.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Like I said, get your facts straight. They DID conduct Static Fire;
otherwise, what was the point of the test????

Sounds like a test of the RCS commands, probably read by GNC in the MCC (I
could ask him). Since I don't think hypergolics were loaded, no jet would
actually fire. Maybe?

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
The thrusters DID actually fire, and a roll thruster fired three times
(which it should not have) without being commanded by the crew; one of
the many "anomalies" NASA does not bother to publicize.

Firing RCS thrusters while the vehicle was enveloped in its access platforms
does strike me as extremely stupid, which is why I'd be surprised
if that was what was happening. Testing command circuitry is a
more likely scenario, based on my own MCC experience (22 years worth).

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote:

Slick, LaDonna. Chop my corrections away by starting a new thread and never
even answer all of those questions. You are fooling only those who just now
started reading this thread de novo.

Quote (all times ZULU):
23:06:47 Ed: That's affirm, twelve gray bars.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25 A & C Roll, Main A and B open.
23:07:23: CMP: They're open........

Daniel

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message ...
"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
om...
Quote (all times ZULU):
23:06:47 Ed: That's affirm, twelve gray bars.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25 A & C Roll, Main A and B open.
23:07:23: CMP: They're open
MSTC: B & D roll Main A & B open.
:28 CMP: B roll is open.
MSTC: Main B open.
:33 CMP: Main B
MSTC: Yaw Main A & B open.
:40 CMP: B open
MSTC: Verify pitch main A is closed
CMP: Pitch Main A is closed.
MSTC: Panel 8, your SCS channel pitch to on.
:50 CMP: Pitch is on.
MSTC: A & C, B & D roll to off.
:55: CMP: A & C, B & D roll is off.
:59 MSTC: Yaw to off
CMP: Yaw to off.
MSTC: RCS command to on.
23:08:04 CMP: RCS command is on.
MSTC: Position not more than a second.
:28 MSTC: Unpin your rotation controller.
:33 CMP: It's unpinned
MSTC: Give us a minus pitch.
:38 CMP: Roger, minus pitch.
MSTC: OK, give us a plus pitch.
MRCS: Camera is go.
:53 MSTC: CMP, Panel 25, RCS pitch Main A to open.
23:09:01 CMP: It's open.
MSTC: Yaw Main B to close.
:6 CMP: Yaw Main B closed.
MSTC: Panel 8 SCS channel pitch is off.
:12 CMP: Pitch is off.
MSTC: Yaw on.
:16 CMP: Yaw on.
MSTC: Give us a minus yaw.
MSTC: Give us a plus yaw.
:37 CMP: Did you get plus yaw?
MSTC: Roger, give us a plus yaw.
:41 CMP: I did.
:45 CMP: I'll give you one more.
And so on.
Like I said, get your facts straight. They DID conduct Static Fire;
otherwise, what was the point of the test????

Testing crew procedures? Testing the portion of the control path that is
upstream of the SM (i.e., contained in the CM). I don't know off hand where
the control was split from that actually leading to the RCS, but you can
test the upstream portion. Did you know that before each launch KSC launch
control practiced multiple launches including activation of all circuits
including the ignitors (actual ignitors were disconnected) without actually
conducting a "Static Fire". This was a test of the space ship electronics,
and there was no need to actually fire the thrusters.

uh, yes. that's why they knew they had an un-commanded roll
thruster firing. when did you come into this????? it's on the same
idr as the rcs safe lights. IYRC.