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reading a USAToday article about the blackout today, it struck me again what
a consistent overall pattern there is to disasters: a.. Early off-nominal indications are buried in surface noise b.. System functions predictably in retrospect, but in a then-totally unplanned combination of patterns c.. There's no time to respond to the problem; by the time a response is begun, it's way too late d.. Safeguards put into place to prevent recurrence of the last disaster either don't apply to the current scenario, have no effect or make it even worse e.. Communications protocols designed to prevent the accident are garbled and unresponsive; turf battles and buck-passing hinder efforts to prevent or limit the damage f.. Hubris set in long ago; this sort of thing "can't happen these days" g.. Nature finds a way in through the cracks regardless h.. Immediately after the event, responsible parties are incommunicado and "out of the loop"; most of the most crucial information during and immediately after the event is acquired through trivial channels i.. Many false, misleading and contradictory rumors are reported in the media; this leads to a garbled public perception of what really happened that can easily become part of the public mythos around the event j.. Before the "what" is even understood, everyone is clamoring to know the "why" and demanding that Something Must Be Done About It (that something being their own pet project) k.. People respond to the crisis by merely redoubling their efforts at what they usually do anyway l.. After the initial chaos has worn off, the leaders responsible for preventing the accident shift into CYA and blamestorming mode; it's everybody's fault but theirs m.. People who screwed up the worst during the event will publicly flaunt their "crisis management" in trying to overcome the problems they personally failed to prevent n.. People who were just doing their jobs the best they knew how are scapegoated, with career-threatening repercussions o.. Lots of people figure out how to make a fast buck out of the event p.. Public officials fight each other to acquire oversight/legislative authority over the affected industry, plus a few other not-so-affected ones q.. The finger-pointing among the parties involved gets truly nasty r.. After careful, objective sifting of the evidence, the cause is determined to be a combination very, very tiny things that nobody even considered, let alone thought likely s.. Notwithstanding which, someone will come forward shortly after the event with documented proof that they "predicted" the event but were ignored or hushed up t.. Consultant types get very rich off the remediation contracts u.. Conspiracy theorists have a field day coming up with wild, convoluted scenarios that all fail the Sniff Test Of Basic Human Behaviour v.. Efforts to rebut the CTers are cited by them as proof of a cover-up w.. The CTers turn the disaster into a little cottage industry, but they never seem to actually make much money off it x.. The people who learn the lessons from this event aren't around the next time something similar happens y.. Next i -- Terrell Miller "I think the significant thing is that whatever prodecure we use, we are not prepared to handle what I would call a fluid bowel movement. That is where we were very...lucky. I was deathly afraid of that." -Wally Schirra, Apollo 7 mission debrief |
#2
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Superb. May I send it to a small circle of associates, with what
attribution? "Terrell Miller" wrote in message ... reading a USAToday article about the blackout today, it struck me again what a consistent overall pattern there is to disasters: a.. Early off-nominal indications are buried in surface noise b.. System functions predictably in retrospect, but in a then-totally unplanned combination of patterns c.. There's no time to respond to the problem; by the time a response is begun, it's way too late d.. Safeguards put into place to prevent recurrence of the last disaster either don't apply to the current scenario, have no effect or make it even worse e.. Communications protocols designed to prevent the accident are garbled and unresponsive; turf battles and buck-passing hinder efforts to prevent or limit the damage f.. Hubris set in long ago; this sort of thing "can't happen these days" g.. Nature finds a way in through the cracks regardless h.. Immediately after the event, responsible parties are incommunicado and "out of the loop"; most of the most crucial information during and immediately after the event is acquired through trivial channels i.. Many false, misleading and contradictory rumors are reported in the media; this leads to a garbled public perception of what really happened that can easily become part of the public mythos around the event j.. Before the "what" is even understood, everyone is clamoring to know the "why" and demanding that Something Must Be Done About It (that something being their own pet project) k.. People respond to the crisis by merely redoubling their efforts at what they usually do anyway l.. After the initial chaos has worn off, the leaders responsible for preventing the accident shift into CYA and blamestorming mode; it's everybody's fault but theirs m.. People who screwed up the worst during the event will publicly flaunt their "crisis management" in trying to overcome the problems they personally failed to prevent n.. People who were just doing their jobs the best they knew how are scapegoated, with career-threatening repercussions o.. Lots of people figure out how to make a fast buck out of the event p.. Public officials fight each other to acquire oversight/legislative authority over the affected industry, plus a few other not-so-affected ones q.. The finger-pointing among the parties involved gets truly nasty r.. After careful, objective sifting of the evidence, the cause is determined to be a combination very, very tiny things that nobody even considered, let alone thought likely s.. Notwithstanding which, someone will come forward shortly after the event with documented proof that they "predicted" the event but were ignored or hushed up t.. Consultant types get very rich off the remediation contracts u.. Conspiracy theorists have a field day coming up with wild, convoluted scenarios that all fail the Sniff Test Of Basic Human Behaviour v.. Efforts to rebut the CTers are cited by them as proof of a cover-up w.. The CTers turn the disaster into a little cottage industry, but they never seem to actually make much money off it x.. The people who learn the lessons from this event aren't around the next time something similar happens y.. Next i -- Terrell Miller "I think the significant thing is that whatever prodecure we use, we are not prepared to handle what I would call a fluid bowel movement. That is where we were very...lucky. I was deathly afraid of that." -Wally Schirra, Apollo 7 mission debrief |
#3
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"Terrell Miller" wrote in message
... snip really neat summary How long did it take you to type that...? ![]() Regarding point R: Sometimes the causes have been seen before, but in the disaster they've come in a new and lethal combination with other factors. In my understanding causes are hardly ever single-point failures, but multiple failures or chains of events that come together in a bad way. Note also that in both Shuttle disasters, the root causes were known and dismissed as insignificant and/or buried long before they got lethal. I think point S could also be fleshed out a little... Whenever something goes wrong there are always two or three "I Told You So's" who come out of the woodwork and take advantage of the situation to get some TV time. They don't always have "documented proof", but they do always have an axe to grind. One example is the fellow who got time on one of the networks to harp on how he was supposedly fired after he tried to convince "them" to put XB-70-style ejection capsules in the Shuttle. There's also the negative doom-sayer types, usually from think-tanks, who make the rounds and say the equivalent of "Yeah well, the program totally sucks in reality and (disaster) is really no surprise, because everything (agency or group) has ever done is really a failure. No success is possible in the future either." John Pike from globalsecurity comes to mind... That guy is on TV everywhere and I have yet to hear him say anything positive about anything. I think these are the people called "Beltway Bandits" but I might be wrong. |
#4
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Remarks in some other post about the ascent angle on Challenger and it got me
thinking about the multiple factors that worked together. 1) The used SRB casing was way out of round. Don't recall if it was even in spec. The poor assembly guys had to put a winch on it to force it into round so that they could join it to the next section. The O-rings would have failed to seal regardless of temperature (maybe.) 2) Launch temp far outside of experience. Cold hardened rubber O-rings wouldn't seal/slow response. 3) Highest winds aloft.....put torque on SRB seals. 4) Highest launch payload. Overall higher stress on structures? |
#5
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![]() Yes, that is much as i see it, but its also how catastrophe theory would see it, only of course the below the noise aspects would be abstract and not named. Brian -- Brian Gaff.... graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them Email: __________________________________________________ __________________________ __________________________________ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/03 |
#6
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There was a book written a few years back, can't remember the name of
the author, but it was called "Normal Accidents" and made essesntially the same points. What we think of as an accident is usually a combination of factors, most of which in themselves would be inconsequential. Best Keith On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:27:37 GMT, "James Oberg" wrote: Superb. May I send it to a small circle of associates, with what attribution? "Terrell Miller" wrote in message .. . reading a USAToday article about the blackout today, it struck me again what a consistent overall pattern there is to disasters: a.. Early off-nominal indications are buried in surface noise b.. System functions predictably in retrospect, but in a then-totally unplanned combination of patterns c.. There's no time to respond to the problem; by the time a response is begun, it's way too late d.. Safeguards put into place to prevent recurrence of the last disaster either don't apply to the current scenario, have no effect or make it even worse e.. Communications protocols designed to prevent the accident are garbled and unresponsive; turf battles and buck-passing hinder efforts to prevent or limit the damage f.. Hubris set in long ago; this sort of thing "can't happen these days" g.. Nature finds a way in through the cracks regardless h.. Immediately after the event, responsible parties are incommunicado and "out of the loop"; most of the most crucial information during and immediately after the event is acquired through trivial channels i.. Many false, misleading and contradictory rumors are reported in the media; this leads to a garbled public perception of what really happened that can easily become part of the public mythos around the event j.. Before the "what" is even understood, everyone is clamoring to know the "why" and demanding that Something Must Be Done About It (that something being their own pet project) k.. People respond to the crisis by merely redoubling their efforts at what they usually do anyway l.. After the initial chaos has worn off, the leaders responsible for preventing the accident shift into CYA and blamestorming mode; it's everybody's fault but theirs m.. People who screwed up the worst during the event will publicly flaunt their "crisis management" in trying to overcome the problems they personally failed to prevent n.. People who were just doing their jobs the best they knew how are scapegoated, with career-threatening repercussions o.. Lots of people figure out how to make a fast buck out of the event p.. Public officials fight each other to acquire oversight/legislative authority over the affected industry, plus a few other not-so-affected ones q.. The finger-pointing among the parties involved gets truly nasty r.. After careful, objective sifting of the evidence, the cause is determined to be a combination very, very tiny things that nobody even considered, let alone thought likely s.. Notwithstanding which, someone will come forward shortly after the event with documented proof that they "predicted" the event but were ignored or hushed up t.. Consultant types get very rich off the remediation contracts u.. Conspiracy theorists have a field day coming up with wild, convoluted scenarios that all fail the Sniff Test Of Basic Human Behaviour v.. Efforts to rebut the CTers are cited by them as proof of a cover-up w.. The CTers turn the disaster into a little cottage industry, but they never seem to actually make much money off it x.. The people who learn the lessons from this event aren't around the next time something similar happens y.. Next i -- Terrell Miller "I think the significant thing is that whatever prodecure we use, we are not prepared to handle what I would call a fluid bowel movement. That is where we were very...lucky. I was deathly afraid of that." -Wally Schirra, Apollo 7 mission debrief ------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Soltys -- -- http://www.soltys.ca/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Grateful Dead/Scarlet Begonias |
#7
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:00:39 +0000, Lynndel Humphreys wrote:
Way off topic here but isn't there a megawatt version of a power surge protector? Sure, for any power you can produce you can build an appropriate varistor set.... for a fee. Multiply said fee by however many millions of junctions.... -- Chuck Stewart "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?" |
#8
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A probabilistic loading-dependent model of cascading failure
and possible implications for blackouts http://certs.lbl.gov/pdf/Dobson_1.pdf -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#9
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"Terrell Miller" wrote:
"Keith Soltys" wrote in message .. . There was a book written a few years back, can't remember the name of the author, but it was called "Normal Accidents" and made essesntially the same points. aha, snagged a copy on Amazon, thanks for the heads-up! It's a damm good read, *much* food for thought. D. -- The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found at the following URLs: Text-Only Version: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html Enhanced HTML Version: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html Corrections, comments, and additions should be e-mailed to , as well as posted to sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for discussion. |
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