Big GPS? (Galactic Positioning System)

Assuming for the sake of discussion that the strange
signals picked up from a distant region of the Milky
Way are in fact the result of one sort of intelligent
manufacture or another, is it not possible that those
signals could be emanating from some sort of "galactic
positioning system"?

If anyone wants to try and enlighten me, here
is a small part of what I would like to know:

How might any such "GPS" be capable of the "movement"
or shifting the signal device seems to show; that is,
how might something like that be created and powered?
Could it possibly be not a single object but a sort of
"galacto-synchronous" string of artificial devices
positioned in such a way to be accessed from all
parts of the Milky Way? In fact, carrying the
idea further, we might have stumbled upon one
such "GPS," and there might be dozens or hundreds
more such signal devices in key positions throughout
the Milky Way.

Any civilization capable of manufacturing such
signalling devices would likely have figured a way
around speed-of-light limitations and might in
fact be part of an "empire" having craft visiting
all parts of the galazy or even the Local Group.
Yet I have to ask myself, why might such a society
of travellers need any such "galactic positioning
system"? If they were advanced enough to get past
light speed, would they not have on-board models of
the Milky Way showing so many distinctive features
our/their galaxy that their craft's own "brain" could
always "celestially navigate" by bouncing signals
of one sort or another off known objects? One
answer might be that the "GPS" we may have detected
is a life-saving back-up system, in case other
systems of craft navigation failed and somebody
got stranded, perhaps off the main ship, in a
"lifeboat" or a planet...

Any thoughts on this?


Mr. Palmer
Room 314 in the upstairs office

On 4 Sep 2004 20:18:58 -0700, (Bill
Palmer) wrote:

Assuming for the sake of discussion that the strange
signals picked up from a distant region of the Milky
Way are in fact the result of one sort of intelligent
manufacture or another, is it not possible that those
signals could be emanating from some sort of "galactic
positioning system"?

If anyone wants to try and enlighten me, here
is a small part of what I would like to know:

How might any such "GPS" be capable of the "movement"
or shifting the signal device seems to show; that is,
how might something like that be created and powered?
Could it possibly be not a single object but a sort of
"galacto-synchronous" string of artificial devices
positioned in such a way to be accessed from all
parts of the Milky Way? In fact, carrying the
idea further, we might have stumbled upon one
such "GPS," and there might be dozens or hundreds
more such signal devices in key positions throughout
the Milky Way.

It has been speculated that pulsars could be used for just that
purpose as they have all the needed requirements: their positions are
well known and their radio emissions have a unique and predictable
signature. By the way, look at

http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2000-001623.html



Any civilization capable of manufacturing such
signalling devices would likely have figured a way
around speed-of-light limitations

The dream, again...

and might in
fact be part of an "empire" having craft visiting
all parts of the galazy or even the Local Group.
Yet I have to ask myself, why might such a society
of travellers need any such "galactic positioning
system"?

Such a system would be useless to them . If you place a beacon 10 000
light-years away and then take a look at it, you see it where it was
10 000 years ago. But what they need to know is where it is NOW!!!
You see the problem?

If they were advanced enough to get past
light speed, would they not have on-board models of
the Milky Way

Definitively. It would take about 56 x10^12 bytes (56 000 gigabytes)
to store a 3D map of the stars of the Galaxy: 64 bits ( 8 bytes ) for
- designation
- position in X, Y and Z
- velocity in X, Y and Z

so 56 bytes for each of the 100 000 000 000 stars of the Galaxy.

showing so many distinctive features
our/their galaxy that their craft's own "brain" could
always "celestially navigate" by bouncing signals
of one sort or another off known objects?

With a GPS, you no longer need a RADAR unless you want to avoid
collisions with unknown objects. And if you're travelling FTL, your
signal has to be FTL too!

One
answer might be that the "GPS" we may have detected
is a life-saving back-up system, in case other
systems of craft navigation failed and somebody
got stranded, perhaps off the main ship, in a
"lifeboat" or a planet...

Any thoughts on this?

We can speculate for ever on any of this. Do you realise that GPS,
RADAR, 3D maps and computers were unknown to mankind only 100 years
ago? When did "lifeboats" or "life-saving backup systems" did appear
in our civilisation? 500, 1 000 years ago? Navigation is only 5 000
to 10 000 years old.

You are giving those ET the same technology, concepts, problems and
solutions that WE have. What they can do is completely beyond our
understanding save for some basic physic laws. Imagine a
Neanderthalis looking at a modern computer...


This subject has been covered in depth by Asimov, Clark, Pohl, Van
Vogt etc...



Mr. Palmer
Room 314 in the upstairs office

In message , Benoit
Morrissette writes
On 4 Sep 2004 20:18:58 -0700, (Bill
Palmer) wrote:

If they were advanced enough to get past
light speed, would they not have on-board models of
the Milky Way

Definitively. It would take about 56 x10^12 bytes (56 000 gigabytes)
to store a 3D map of the stars of the Galaxy: 64 bits ( 8 bytes ) for
- designation
- position in X, Y and Z
- velocity in X, Y and Z

so 56 bytes for each of the 100 000 000 000 stars of the Galaxy.


Arthur Clarke has noted that one of the problems with navigating the
Galaxy is that reading 13498769769876675 as 13498769679876675 would put
you "at the other end of Creation". "Sorry, wrong number" :-)
--
What have they got to hide? Release the ESA Beagle 2 report.
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.

Sorry, if you mean the 1000 light year signal, it doesn't exist.
seti@home has had that scenario on its website for months as an
example of what such a signal would look like. Usenet kooks have
turned it into something more. It doesn't exist as yet.

Saul Levy


On 4 Sep 2004 20:18:58 -0700, (Bill
Palmer) wrote:

Assuming for the sake of discussion that the strange
signals picked up from a distant region of the Milky
Way are in fact the result of one sort of intelligent
manufacture or another, is it not possible that those
signals could be emanating from some sort of "galactic
positioning system"?

If anyone wants to try and enlighten me, here
is a small part of what I would like to know:

How might any such "GPS" be capable of the "movement"
or shifting the signal device seems to show; that is,
how might something like that be created and powered?
Could it possibly be not a single object but a sort of
"galacto-synchronous" string of artificial devices
positioned in such a way to be accessed from all
parts of the Milky Way? In fact, carrying the
idea further, we might have stumbled upon one
such "GPS," and there might be dozens or hundreds
more such signal devices in key positions throughout
the Milky Way.

Any civilization capable of manufacturing such
signalling devices would likely have figured a way
around speed-of-light limitations and might in
fact be part of an "empire" having craft visiting
all parts of the galazy or even the Local Group.
Yet I have to ask myself, why might such a society
of travellers need any such "galactic positioning
system"? If they were advanced enough to get past
light speed, would they not have on-board models of
the Milky Way showing so many distinctive features
our/their galaxy that their craft's own "brain" could
always "celestially navigate" by bouncing signals
of one sort or another off known objects? One
answer might be that the "GPS" we may have detected
is a life-saving back-up system, in case other
systems of craft navigation failed and somebody
got stranded, perhaps off the main ship, in a
"lifeboat" or a planet...

Any thoughts on this?


Mr. Palmer
Room 314 in the upstairs office