talk.origin banned subject:Law and Order-observations by Roger Penrose and Astrophysicist Alan Lightman

"JaBrIoL" wrote in message
om...
All:

Do not attempt to crosspost to TO, the censorship filter would engage
and the other groups will be cutoff leaving just t.o and arjw, and you
would not be able to review your replies. the jabfilter is not in the
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Do not attempt to use your brain, the idiot filter would engage and the rest
of your body will atrophy, leaving only your gaping credulity. The
jabbberdickhead filter is not in the T.O. faqs because it is a matter of
common sense to *not* crosspost off-topic junk like this to multiple
uninterested groups.

Frank

"Luigi Caselli" wrote in message
...
"Zachriel" ha scritto nel messaggio
. net...

From personal experience, you likely know that all things tend
toward disorder. As any homeowner has observed, when left to
themselves, things tend to break down or disintegrate. Scientists
refer to this tendency as "the second law of thermodynamics."

This is incorrect. That is not an accurate statement of the 2nd Law of
Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law is a statement about the quality and
direction
of heat flow. Valid statements of the 2nd Law which concern entropy
(disorder) must be equivalent to the same statements concerning heat,
and
consequently relate to molecular disorder, and not human-scaled notions
of
order and disorder.

Sorry but I remember, in a Stephen Hawking book,

In books intended for popular consumption (and the generation of large
amounts of disposable income), theoretical physicists are wont to illustrate
extremely arcane concepts with easily understood homespun parables like the
falling cup.

Think: the reverse of the example is not only possible, but manifestly
necessary, otherwise there would not be a cup to break, but merely a lump of
clay.

The entire history of the cup, from the sweatshop in Taiwan where it was
made to its tragic fate resulted in a universe with slightly higher entropy.

Capice?

The process which generated the cup in the first place resulted in the
reduction of energy available to do work. Additional energy, stored in the
bonds between clay particles in the intact cup, was dissipated in its
destruction.

Thus nature, by the use of the chemical properties of certain atoms and
molecules and the dissipation of energy available to do work, generates DNA
so that organisms may reproduce. Then nature modifies that DNA so that
organisms may evolve.

From the evolution of man from primates to our ultimate tragic fate
(probably at our own hands), the entropy of the universe will slightly
increase.

Frank



the example of the little
cup falling from a table, breaking and increasing its entropy.
The contrary is impossible. This is reported as a 2nd Law example.
So is the example uncorrect or I'm missing something?

Maybe 2nd Law is not right for huge massive objects like galaxies (or
cluster, supercluster and the entire Universe) where the gravity force
compensates entropy and give us a cosmological order at big scale.
In other words my room is a mess but my Milky Way shows little disorder...
only a difference of scale...

Luigi Caselli

"Frank Reichenbacher" wrote in message
...

"JaBrIoL" wrote in message
om...
All:

Do not attempt to crosspost to TO, the censorship filter would engage
and the other groups will be cutoff leaving just t.o and arjw, and you
would not be able to review your replies. the jabfilter is not in the
T.O faqs, and the moderator is not required to follow the charter as
stated in News.Groups

Do not attempt to use your brain, the idiot filter would engage and the
rest
of your body will atrophy, leaving only your gaping credulity. The
jabbberdickhead filter is not in the T.O. faqs because it is a matter of
common sense to *not* crosspost off-topic junk like this to multiple
uninterested groups.

Frank



interesting enough, the charter does not mention what is to be deemed off
subject. and of course entropy is never discussed on t.o
ad hominen noted..

"jabriol" wrote in message
...

"Frank Reichenbacher" wrote in message
...

"JaBrIoL" wrote in message
om...
All:

Do not attempt to crosspost to TO, the censorship filter would engage
and the other groups will be cutoff leaving just t.o and arjw, and you
would not be able to review your replies. the jabfilter is not in the
T.O faqs, and the moderator is not required to follow the charter as
stated in News.Groups

Do not attempt to use your brain, the idiot filter would engage and the
rest
of your body will atrophy, leaving only your gaping credulity. The
jabbberdickhead filter is not in the T.O. faqs because it is a matter of
common sense to *not* crosspost off-topic junk like this to multiple
uninterested groups.

Frank



interesting enough, the charter does not mention what is to be deemed off
subject.

Nearly all of your posts would be considered on-topic for TO. Your recent
gripe about the UN and your obsessive yammerings about Carol, would
obviously be considered off-topic.


and of course entropy is never discussed on t.o
ad hominen noted..

As I have previously noted, the "hominem" part of your "ad hominem" whine
has yet to be established.

Here is the result of a google groups search in talk.origins for subject
headers containing the word, "entropy".

Searched Groups for insubject:entropy.
Results 1 - 100 of about 257,000.

Since 1981, the word "entropy" has appeared 257,000 times in the subject of
talk-origins messages.

Frank

(JaBrIoL) wrote in
om:

All:

Do not attempt to crosspost to TO, the censorship filter would engage
and the other groups will be cutoff leaving just t.o and arjw, and you
would not be able to review your replies. the jabfilter is not in the
T.O faqs, and the moderator is not required to follow the charter as
stated in News.Groups

you have been warned


Now then

From personal experience, you likely know that all things tend
toward disorder.

Incorrect.


As any homeowner has observed, when left to
themselves, things tend to break down or disintegrate.

Not all things, and not all the time.


Scientists
refer to this tendency as "the second law of thermodynamics." We can
see this law at work daily. If left alone, a new automobile or bicycle
will become scrap. Abandon a building and it will become a ruin. What
about the universe? The law applies there too. So you might think that
the order throughout the universe should give way to complete
disorder.

However, this does not seem to be happening to the universe,

Leave a star alone, and it will burn out and transform into heavier
elements, explode or blow off lots of matter and then turn into a white
dwarf or black hole. Leave a comet alone, and eventually it will
disintegrate. The rings of Saturn will one day not be there anymore, etc.


as
Professor of Mathematics Roger Penrose discovered when he studied the
state of disorderliness (or, entropy) of the observable universe. A
logical way to interpret such findings is to conclude that the
universe started off in an ordered state and is still highly
organized. Astrophysicist Alan Lightman noted that scientists "find it
mysterious that the universe was created in such a highly ordered
condition." He added that "any successful theory of cosmology should
ultimately explain this entropy problem"—why the universe has not
become chaotic.

Because of the physical and chemical properties of matter, for one?


In fact, our existence is contrary to this recognized law.

No.


So why is
it that we are alive here on earth? As previously noted, that is a
basic question that we should want answered.