CI700 Beef up

Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

Now you need to do something to make that CI700 tripod more versatile. Take
a look here www.alsastro.com and select CI700.

Al

"Al" wrote in message et...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

Now you need to do something to make that CI700 tripod more versatile. Take
a look here www.alsastro.com and select CI700.

Al

Right now it works. The next project will be a pier with retractable
legs with a handle.I just don't like the tripod thing anymore. My
scope gets too close during my goto's and they take up too much room.
Thanks though, I did see them a while ago and gave it some thought. If
I had the C11 I would stay with a tripod.

Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
"Al" wrote in message
et...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

Now you need to do something to make that CI700 tripod more versatile.
Take
a look here www.alsastro.com and select CI700.

Al

Right now it works. The next project will be a pier with retractable
legs with a handle.I just don't like the tripod thing anymore. My
scope gets too close during my goto's and they take up too much room.
Thanks though, I did see them a while ago and gave it some thought. If
I had the C11 I would stay with a tripod.

Jim

If a pier is you next project, you are probably viewing from your backyard.
I can't afford that luxury! I live about 20 miles from NYC and the light
pollution here is just about as bad as it gets. Whenever I do serious
viewing, I take my telescope to darker skies, about a 2 hour drive. The
tripod lends itself to this task as it folds up nicely and stores easily.
BTW, I use mine with a C14. Good luck with your next project.

Al

Hi Al, I have one of your tripods with the deluxe adjustable leg kit mated
to my N11. It works great.

--

Clear Skies,

Chuck

"Al" wrote in message
et...

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
"Al" wrote in message
et...
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

Now you need to do something to make that CI700 tripod more versatile.
Take
a look here www.alsastro.com and select CI700.

Al

Right now it works. The next project will be a pier with retractable
legs with a handle.I just don't like the tripod thing anymore. My
scope gets too close during my goto's and they take up too much room.
Thanks though, I did see them a while ago and gave it some thought. If
I had the C11 I would stay with a tripod.

Jim

If a pier is you next project, you are probably viewing from your
backyard.
I can't afford that luxury! I live about 20 miles from NYC and the light
pollution here is just about as bad as it gets. Whenever I do serious
viewing, I take my telescope to darker skies, about a 2 hour drive. The
tripod lends itself to this task as it folds up nicely and stores easily.
BTW, I use mine with a C14. Good luck with your next project.

Al

Thats a hefty project to undertake. Why, may I ask, did you decide to
put this
effort into a ci700 vs other mounting alternatives. My interest is
practical.
I have come very close several times to buying a ci700 - some are
advertised
used for very attractive prices. Every time I've come close somebody has
surfaced
to say: 'you dont want that mount, get a _________ or a _________ etc
etc etc.
Thus, I backed up each time. Obviously you thought the mount was worth
this effort.
I'm sure open to opinions -
Thanks,
Jerry




Jim wrote:

Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

I have the CI700 and got it for about $900. This mount works as good if not
better than the G11 I had previously. Although this is my preference, I
like having the 2 clutches per axis rather than the one. This mount seems
to track slightly better than the G11 did. I've since had the mount
retrofitted with a Gemini setup and am currently upgrading the bearings (a
problem with both the G11 and CI-700 is really cold weather and weight near
the limit of the mounts causes them to be "sticky"). The bearings upgrade
will allow it to work in really cold weather flawlessly.

The main issue with the CI-700 has been it's tripod. Take that out of the
picture (and I quickly sold mine as soon as I got it) and it's a great
mount, especially if you like the 2 clutches per axis vs. 1.

Mike.


"jerry warner" wrote in message
...
Thats a hefty project to undertake. Why, may I ask, did you decide to
put this
effort into a ci700 vs other mounting alternatives. My interest is
practical.
I have come very close several times to buying a ci700 - some are
advertised
used for very attractive prices. Every time I've come close somebody has
surfaced
to say: 'you dont want that mount, get a _________ or a _________ etc
etc etc.
Thus, I backed up each time. Obviously you thought the mount was worth
this effort.
I'm sure open to opinions -
Thanks,
Jerry




Jim wrote:

Hi, I made some modifications to my ci-700 mount and posting a link.
http://www.geocities.com/jgfusco3/CI-700Hercules.html
Thanks, Jim

Hi Guys,
Somehow my entire massage became deleated. OK, I am impressed with the
frame of the CI700. My quest happened when my goto's were not
pinpoint, sloppy backlash,clutches that slipped, and the ci700 getting
knock down by others.
My first problem were the clutches, they stink. Dick Commander sells
neoprene disc that fit.(Astronomy mall) They grip and perform a
internal damper effect.
First decided to have a real bearing under the worm gear. I purchased
a fiberbearing, later to be replace with a bronze one. For $11.00 for
the fiberbearing, they were the way to go.Easy to do, nice upgrade.
I got into an argument about the G11, shafts and load. Maybe a hollow
shaft might be stronger than a solid shaft of same material.
I decide to shut that person up and made shafts of drill rod. Hollow
shafts have a limit and I exceded that limit.If there was a flex
issue? There is non now.303 stainless (common shaft material)is a soft
metal,easy to work with unlike drillrod.
1st I have the resource and friends to make this possible. They would
also are in interested to make more to sell.
2nd the mount has a good base, built well, bronze gears ( hate
aluminum- soft, things eat it, reacts, coating wears its junk.)
3rd Many of the pre-mo mounts are over rated and their followers
remind me of heaven gateway followers, cutting their balls for 7
quarters and placing a bag over their head to hop on the ufo behind
halebop.
4th Many owner of the CI700 have problems that can be resolve. I want
to help by showing, giving good ideas. Small things depending on your
buget, neoprene clutches.Removal of allens. Bearings, different
stages, roller thrust to replace the taper under the wormgear, shafts.
To maxing out like I did.
5th The way I did may not be the best,there may be better way.
Theres, I think different stages,
5a install better clutches.
5b install a roller needle thrust bearing under the worm gear itself
like the new ci's
5c replace the one taper or both (each axes)with a roller
thrust.(machining may be required)aid in backlash.
5d New shaft, removes more backlash, 5b,needle thrust bearing under
worm gear not required. Most of clutch Load will be transfer to
shaft,cutting friction.

Manufactures seem to stray away from using good bearings. They are
expensive and cannot control the cost.CI700 $3.00 ea,G11 $5.00, mine
$50.00ea. Bearing are the motion, the heart of the mount. The mount
seem to be engineer for better bearings, but it seems a bean counter
took over the project. For those considering upgrades can contact me,
to purchase shafts, to having maching done. This may look simple. But
the first time, however is not always so. My friends are naturals at
this understand the nature and are looking to do some work.

Tripod, my scope sometimes hits. Mine is tested to 130lbs. I can't say
nothing bad about that, and it's rigid.
Jim

Manufactures seem to stray away from using good bearings. They are
expensive and cannot control the cost.CI700 $3.00 ea,G11 $5.00, mine
$50.00ea. Bearing are the motion, the heart of the mount. The mount
seem to be engineer for better bearings, but it seems a bean counter
took over the project. For those considering upgrades can contact me,
to purchase shafts, to having maching done. This may look simple. But
the first time, however is not always so. My friends are naturals at
this understand the nature and are looking to do some work.


There is such a thing as over engineering a mount. I don't understand why
expensive bearings should be a requirement, as a telescope mount does not
withstand high RPM, heavy loads or excessive use. I have replaced bearings
in 5 HP jointers and shapers for as little as $8. These machines operate at
about 10,000 to 12,000 RPM and are used daily for hours at a time. After
replacing the bearings, the machine will continue to operate for up to 10
years before bearings again become a problem. How do you justify spending
$50 ea for a bearing that fits in a telescope mount? There is no doubt that
you get some peace of mind, but the cost is much too high.

Al


"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Hi Guys,
Somehow my entire massage became deleated. OK, I am impressed with the
frame of the CI700. My quest happened when my goto's were not
pinpoint, sloppy backlash,clutches that slipped, and the ci700 getting
knock down by others.
My first problem were the clutches, they stink. Dick Commander sells
neoprene disc that fit.(Astronomy mall) They grip and perform a
internal damper effect.
First decided to have a real bearing under the worm gear. I purchased
a fiberbearing, later to be replace with a bronze one. For $11.00 for
the fiberbearing, they were the way to go.Easy to do, nice upgrade.
I got into an argument about the G11, shafts and load. Maybe a hollow
shaft might be stronger than a solid shaft of same material.
I decide to shut that person up and made shafts of drill rod. Hollow
shafts have a limit and I exceded that limit.If there was a flex
issue? There is non now.303 stainless (common shaft material)is a soft
metal,easy to work with unlike drillrod.
1st I have the resource and friends to make this possible. They would
also are in interested to make more to sell.
2nd the mount has a good base, built well, bronze gears ( hate
aluminum- soft, things eat it, reacts, coating wears its junk.)
3rd Many of the pre-mo mounts are over rated and their followers
remind me of heaven gateway followers, cutting their balls for 7
quarters and placing a bag over their head to hop on the ufo behind
halebop.
4th Many owner of the CI700 have problems that can be resolve. I want
to help by showing, giving good ideas. Small things depending on your
buget, neoprene clutches.Removal of allens. Bearings, different
stages, roller thrust to replace the taper under the wormgear, shafts.
To maxing out like I did.
5th The way I did may not be the best,there may be better way.
Theres, I think different stages,
5a install better clutches.
5b install a roller needle thrust bearing under the worm gear itself
like the new ci's
5c replace the one taper or both (each axes)with a roller
thrust.(machining may be required)aid in backlash.
5d New shaft, removes more backlash, 5b,needle thrust bearing under
worm gear not required. Most of clutch Load will be transfer to
shaft,cutting friction.

Manufactures seem to stray away from using good bearings. They are
expensive and cannot control the cost.CI700 $3.00 ea,G11 $5.00, mine
$50.00ea. Bearing are the motion, the heart of the mount. The mount
seem to be engineer for better bearings, but it seems a bean counter
took over the project. For those considering upgrades can contact me,
to purchase shafts, to having maching done. This may look simple. But
the first time, however is not always so. My friends are naturals at
this understand the nature and are looking to do some work.

Tripod, my scope sometimes hits. Mine is tested to 130lbs. I can't say
nothing bad about that, and it's rigid.
Jim

"Al" wrote in message . net...
Manufactures seem to stray away from using good bearings. They are
expensive and cannot control the cost.CI700 $3.00 ea,G11 $5.00, mine
$50.00ea. Bearing are the motion, the heart of the mount. The mount
seem to be engineer for better bearings, but it seems a bean counter
took over the project. For those considering upgrades can contact me,
to purchase shafts, to having maching done. This may look simple. But
the first time, however is not always so. My friends are naturals at
this understand the nature and are looking to do some work.


There is such a thing as over engineering a mount. I don't understand why
expensive bearings should be a requirement, as a telescope mount does not
withstand high RPM, heavy loads or excessive use. I have replaced bearings
in 5 HP jointers and shapers for as little as $8. These machines operate at
about 10,000 to 12,000 RPM and are used daily for hours at a time. After
replacing the bearings, the machine will continue to operate for up to 10
years before bearings again become a problem. How do you justify spending
$50 ea for a bearing that fits in a telescope mount? There is no doubt that
you get some peace of mind, but the cost is much too high.

Al

Hi Al
My goal is to have pin point goto's. With the CI700 and G11 there are
problems with these mounts that need to be address. In order to
achieve my goal, play and backlash needed to be reduce. With your
CI700, if backlash is set tight as you rotate your gear binding will
occur about 180 degrees. I believe this occurs because of the play
that occurs between the wormgear and shaft. Next are the taper
bearings. If you attempt to tighten the bearing house retainer,
binding will occur. This happens with the front wheels of your
car(rear wheel drive). A proper amount of play is require to allow the
bearing to function (greater eccentricity). On the other hand roller
thrust bearing are a precision bearing and require preload
(tight).Eccentricity only occurs now only by bearing design. As you
know a high degree of precision is built into a quality Roller thrust
bearing. When a taper bearing is used play is generated. Removing this
element (taper bearing)from the mount will only allow for greater
bearing stiffness and stability which will provide and Maintain a more
precise shaft position. Large deep grove roller thrust bearings will
not only support the forces of thrust but also the angular forces too.
The roller thrust 51305, is almost a drop in bearing and fits the
stock shaft very well. Removal of .005 may be needed to ensure
clearance(a local machine shop can address this for around $50.00).
The bearings range for me from $42.00-$48.00 not including shipping.
The fiberbearing $5.00 each to replace the nylon bearing, 3m adhesive
to glue it to the worm gear support. Neoprene disc $5.00 for three.
$120.00 +- for one axes, $200 for both. Improvement has been done.
However does not address the shaft and worm gear gap nor shaft
improvement. Clutch force still occurs only at the top. Worm follows
the base and not the shaft.


Jim
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Hi Guys,
Somehow my entire massage became deleated. OK, I am impressed with the
frame of the CI700. My quest happened when my goto's were not
pinpoint, sloppy backlash,clutches that slipped, and the ci700 getting
knock down by others.
My first problem were the clutches, they stink. Dick Commander sells
neoprene disc that fit.(Astronomy mall) They grip and perform a
internal damper effect.
First decided to have a real bearing under the worm gear. I purchased
a fiberbearing, later to be replace with a bronze one. For $11.00 for
the fiberbearing, they were the way to go.Easy to do, nice upgrade.
I got into an argument about the G11, shafts and load. Maybe a hollow
shaft might be stronger than a solid shaft of same material.
I decide to shut that person up and made shafts of drill rod. Hollow
shafts have a limit and I exceded that limit.If there was a flex
issue? There is non now.303 stainless (common shaft material)is a soft
metal,easy to work with unlike drillrod.
1st I have the resource and friends to make this possible. They would
also are in interested to make more to sell.
2nd the mount has a good base, built well, bronze gears ( hate
aluminum- soft, things eat it, reacts, coating wears its junk.)
3rd Many of the pre-mo mounts are over rated and their followers
remind me of heaven gateway followers, cutting their balls for 7
quarters and placing a bag over their head to hop on the ufo behind
halebop.
4th Many owner of the CI700 have problems that can be resolve. I want
to help by showing, giving good ideas. Small things depending on your
buget, neoprene clutches.Removal of allens. Bearings, different
stages, roller thrust to replace the taper under the wormgear, shafts.
To maxing out like I did.
5th The way I did may not be the best,there may be better way.
Theres, I think different stages,
5a install better clutches.
5b install a roller needle thrust bearing under the worm gear itself
like the new ci's
5c replace the one taper or both (each axes)with a roller
thrust.(machining may be required)aid in backlash.
5d New shaft, removes more backlash, 5b,needle thrust bearing under
worm gear not required. Most of clutch Load will be transfer to
shaft,cutting friction.

Manufactures seem to stray away from using good bearings. They are
expensive and cannot control the cost.CI700 $3.00 ea,G11 $5.00, mine
$50.00ea. Bearing are the motion, the heart of the mount. The mount
seem to be engineer for better bearings, but it seems a bean counter
took over the project. For those considering upgrades can contact me,
to purchase shafts, to having maching done. This may look simple. But
the first time, however is not always so. My friends are naturals at
this understand the nature and are looking to do some work.

Tripod, my scope sometimes hits. Mine is tested to 130lbs. I can't say
nothing bad about that, and it's rigid.
Jim