Getting our astronauts into and out of space

In sci.space.shuttle message
, Thu, 3 Apr 2014 02:49:07, posted:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:10:56 -0400, David Spain wrote:

On 4/2/2014 12:31 AM, wrote:
...

Could they
take over the station? Or is there a code of honor in the space business?

Yes. Simply return the last American and refuse to send up any more.
Refund the NASA contract money with penalties (if applicable) and its a
done deal under International commerce law and treaty. Code of honor?
How much does that cost?

Well, I guess that would be no threat. We could blow it out of the sky if
necessary. I mean if they were so stupid as to try and weaponize it. Hopefully
all this crap blows over.

The ISS is not *in* the sky. The USA lacks the ability to bring any
part of it down, unless that part fits - size and mass - into a Dragon.
And bring ISS down in any other than a careful and well-controlled
fashion carries an unacceptable risk of it coming down in an inhabited
region.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Mail via homepage. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.

In article id,
lid says...

In sci.space.shuttle message
, Thu, 3 Apr 2014 02:49:07, posted:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:10:56 -0400, David Spain wrote:

On 4/2/2014 12:31 AM, wrote:
...

Could they
take over the station? Or is there a code of honor in the space business?

Yes. Simply return the last American and refuse to send up any more.
Refund the NASA contract money with penalties (if applicable) and its a
done deal under International commerce law and treaty. Code of honor?
How much does that cost?

Well, I guess that would be no threat. We could blow it out of the sky if
necessary. I mean if they were so stupid as to try and weaponize it. Hopefully
all this crap blows over.

The ISS is not *in* the sky. The USA lacks the ability to bring any
part of it down, unless that part fits - size and mass - into a Dragon.
And bring ISS down in any other than a careful and well-controlled
fashion carries an unacceptable risk of it coming down in an inhabited
region.

It's not *quite* that dire.

If the US were to try this on their own, one possibility would be to
have SpaceX come up with an expendable Dragon that carried extra fuel
and oxidizer inside the capsule. Another would be to do the same with
Orbital's Cygnus. But, not only is that not (quite) "off the shelf",
but I'm not sure one of these would be enough to safely deorbit ISS.

Another possibility is to get ESA and Japan to help in the same manner
as proposed above, only with their ATV and HTV vehicles. Actually,
these two might be the best bets in terms of (station) delta-V when
compared to either Dragon or Cygnus.

But I doubt any of this is "in the cards" since it is looking like NASA
has suspended all relationships with Russia *except* those that involve
ISS. No surprise since Soyuz is currently the only way *any* astronauts
from *any* country can get to ISS. That's the bigger problem.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In sci.space.shuttle message
l-september.org, Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:36:36, Jeff Findley jeff.findley@s
iemens.nospam.com posted:

In article id,
says...

In sci.space.shuttle message
, Thu, 3 Apr 2014 02:49:07, posted:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:10:56 -0400, David Spain wrote:

On 4/2/2014 12:31 AM, wrote:
...

Could they
take over the station? Or is there a code of honor in the space business?

Yes. Simply return the last American and refuse to send up any more.
Refund the NASA contract money with penalties (if applicable) and its a
done deal under International commerce law and treaty. Code of honor?
How much does that cost?

Well, I guess that would be no threat. We could blow it out of the sky if
necessary. I mean if they were so stupid as to try and weaponize it.
Hopefully
all this crap blows over.

The ISS is not *in* the sky. The USA lacks the ability to bring any
part of it down, unless that part fits - size and mass - into a Dragon.
And bring ISS down in any other than a careful and well-controlled
fashion carries an unacceptable risk of it coming down in an inhabited
region.

It's not *quite* that dire.

If the US were to try this on their own, one possibility would be to
have SpaceX come up with an expendable Dragon that carried extra fuel
and oxidizer inside the capsule. Another would be to do the same with
Orbital's Cygnus. But, not only is that not (quite) "off the shelf",
but I'm not sure one of these would be enough to safely deorbit ISS.

Eurasia would be unhappy if the US in its own unilaterally sunk the
Eurasian parts of the ISS - and the US lacks the means of humanely
removing the Russians from the ISS.

Another possibility is to get ESA and Japan to help in the same manner
as proposed above, only with their ATV and HTV vehicles. Actually,
these two might be the best bets in terms of (station) delta-V when
compared to either Dragon or Cygnus.

As above. But, for a sufficient price, ESA & JAXA should be willing to
sink the US-made parts of ISS. However, it is expected that ESA will
lose the ability to help in that way in under 60 days from now.

In an emergency, which this would be, ISS could be brought down in the
southernmost part of almost any orbit. There's very little at that
latitude apart from the tag-ends of Argentina & Chile, and Port Stanley.
And natural drag will bring the ISS down to near re-entry in a rather
few years, reducing the delta-V needed to get it down predictably.


--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. E-mail, see Home Page. Turnpike v6.05.
Website http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc. : http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/ - see in 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.

In sci.space.shuttle message
raweb.com, Sat, 5 Apr 2014 19:25:11, JF Mezei jfmezei.spamnot@vaxinati
on.ca posted:

On 14-04-05 11:36, Jeff Findley wrote:

Another possibility is to get ESA and Japan to help in the same manner
as proposed above, only with their ATV and HTV vehicles.

ATV docks to the russian port. They would have to adapt ATV to support
the PMA2 style of docking port, and update the area around PMA2 to
support the antennas/mirrors and what not require for ATV to dock
without Kurs.

Within two months from now, it should become impossible for ESA to
launch an ATV.

Another possible option would be to move PMA2, and get the HTV and
SpaceX to berth on the front facing port of node2 so it could then
accelerate the whole station (would have to turn it around though so the
russian side were in front).

..
There is no need for a proper docking with hatches, internal pressure,
etc., in order to set up for destructive re-entry. The connection just
needs to be able to apply a force of a few tonnes in line with the
centre of gravity.


I see that the Indians are building ATVs too; but theirs at most could
only dock with ISS after splashdown.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. Mail, see Homepage. BP7, Delphi 3 & 2006.
http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
http://www.bancoems.com/CompLangPascalDelphiMisc-MiniFAQ.htm clpdmFAQ;
NOT http://support.codegear.com/newsgroups/: news:borland.* Guidelines