Does anyone doubt theres life beyond earth?

anyone? and why?

On Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:19:04 PM UTC-7, bob haller wrote:
anyone? and why?

Doubt is good. Got an example of a confirmed find?
I'll guess the solar system is sterile except for the planet Earth.

On the other hand, my sense is if there is another Earth-like planet
with life, it won't be compatible with life on Earth.


Trig

On 11/06/2012 9:19 AM, bob haller wrote:
anyone? and why?

Life at the single cell level? Maybe.

To get beyond that has taken billions of years on Earth. To get to
intelligent life has also taken a bizarre sequence of events, including
at least one near extinction of our ancestors.

So perhaps I wouldn't go so far as to say I doubt there's life beyond
Earth, but intelligent life may be so improbable as to mean that we're
the only example in the Universe.

Sylvia.

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

anyone? and why?



Well, given the size of the universe, the number of places we've found life
on earth under extreme conditions and the fact that we can already detect
some precursors in clouds in space, I'd be surprised if there isn't life of
some form elsewhere.

But firstly, that doesn't mean we'd recognize it (though I suspect we
probably would, at least eventually).

Secondly, as Sylvia says, the question of if there is intelligent life, is
bigger one. Given how short the presence of intelligent life has been on
Earth, I think it's exceedingly rare, to the point that it's quite possible
we might be it, at least in this galaxy. It's also quite likely that
intelligent life just doesn't last long enough to make an impact. It might
NOT provide a great enough evolutionary advantage.

And while I'm sure you've heard of it, google Fermi Paradox



--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

In article ,
"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

anyone? and why?



Well, given the size of the universe, the number of places we've found life
on earth under extreme conditions and the fact that we can already detect
some precursors in clouds in space, I'd be surprised if there isn't life of
some form elsewhere.

But firstly, that doesn't mean we'd recognize it (though I suspect we
probably would, at least eventually).

Secondly, as Sylvia says, the question of if there is intelligent life, is
bigger one. Given how short the presence of intelligent life has been on
Earth, I think it's exceedingly rare, to the point that it's quite possible
we might be it, at least in this galaxy. It's also quite likely that
intelligent life just doesn't last long enough to make an impact. It might
NOT provide a great enough evolutionary advantage.

And while I'm sure you've heard of it, google Fermi Paradox

As for the Fermi Paradox, there are those among us who, judging from
many of the post we see on the Internet, might question the existence of
intelligent life on Earth. ;)

And while I'm sure you've heard of it, google Fermi Paradox

Although the answer to that may just be that it's too damned difficult
both to travel between the stars, and to make oneself noticed by other
means.

Maybe if we were more intelligence we'd see ways, but here's the rub -
evolution gave us intelligence because it helped us survive a severe
drought in Africa, not so that we could become a starfaring race. Once
we'd evolved the intelligence required to cope, we stopped evolving in
that direction.

Any other race would likely face the same obstacle.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else wrote:

Maybe if we were more intelligence we'd see ways, but here's the rub -
evolution gave us intelligence because it helped us survive a severe
drought in Africa, not so that we could become a starfaring race. Once
we'd evolved the intelligence required to cope, we stopped evolving in
that direction.

There is the hope of genetic engineering. When/if it becomes regularly
available a large number of parents will want their children to have
more intelligence because there is a high correlation between below
average intelligence and lack of success in life. That would trigger a
gradual competition trender to greater intelligence across generations.

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message ...

Sylvia Else wrote:

Maybe if we were more intelligence we'd see ways, but here's the rub -
evolution gave us intelligence because it helped us survive a severe
drought in Africa, not so that we could become a starfaring race. Once
we'd evolved the intelligence required to cope, we stopped evolving in
that direction.

There is the hope of genetic engineering. When/if it becomes regularly
available a large number of parents will want their children to have
more intelligence because there is a high correlation between below
average intelligence and lack of success in life. That would trigger a
gradual competition trender to greater intelligence across generations.


Except there's no real proof that intelligence guarantees success any better
than other evolutionary strategies.

If you look at almost any numbers, I'd say microbes are by far more
successful.

There's a very real chance that intelligence could end up as an evolutionary
dead-end.

If nothing else, only humans seem to have come up ways that could pretty
much wipe ourselves out.

Agent Smith may be right.




--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
"Doug Freyburger" wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:

Maybe if we were more intelligence we'd see ways, but here's the rub -
evolution gave us intelligence because it helped us survive a severe
drought in Africa, not so that we could become a starfaring race ...

There is the hope of genetic engineering. When/if it becomes regularly
available a large number of parents will want their children to have
more intelligence because there is a high correlation between below
average intelligence and lack of success in life ...

Except there's no real proof that intelligence guarantees success any better
than other evolutionary strategies.

Within humanity there is only correlation that low intelligence goes
with low material success. Once a bit above average in intellegence the
correlation becomes very poor.

If you look at almost any numbers, I'd say microbes are by far more
successful.

They'd had a lot more time.

There's a very real chance that intelligence could end up as an evolutionary
dead-end.

Could be. Time will tell.

If nothing else, only humans seem to have come up ways that could pretty
much wipe ourselves out.

Plenty of other species have gone extinct. I bet plenty figured out
ways to cause it themselves in various ways.

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
...
And while I'm sure you've heard of it, google Fermi Paradox

Although the answer to that may just be that it's too damned difficult
both to travel between the stars, and to make oneself noticed by other
means.

Maybe if we were more intelligence we'd see ways, but here's the rub -
evolution gave us intelligence because it helped us survive a severe
drought in Africa, not so that we could become a starfaring race. Once
we'd evolved the intelligence required to cope, we stopped evolving in
that direction.


I still can't believe how few people have a basic
understanding of evolution. Evolutionary events
follow a power-law distribution. Which is analogous
to an earthquake, countless minor events leading up
to the rare 'big one'. You just described one
of those big ones as happening at a 'critical point'.
Where some system is on the edge or tipping point
for it's survival, and suddenly, as if like magic, along
comes intelligence and now the Earth can sustain
orders of magnitude more life than before.

Intelligence opened up an enormous new possibility
space to explore, wide open and without any natural
competition to slow the expansion.

Well here we are at another of those 'critical points'.
And along comes things like the Internet, connecting
billions of individual minds into a massively parallel
network.

We're in the middle of the next great evolutionary step!
The rare 'big one'.

The collective wisdom of life usually finds a way
to take that next step, and just when it's needed
the most.

If intelligence emerges from a single mind.
What emerges from collective intelligence?
What is that which is above man, but can only
be known, not proven? What word should
we use to describe that something 'more' that
drives life towards it's mathematical destiny?



Jonathan


s




Any other race would likely face the same obstacle.

Sylvia.