Risk of Ice Age from Global Warming Confirmed

Thes news articles

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/9697319.cms

http://www.irishweatheronline.com/ne...ate/33052.html

show that there is a genuine possibility that the scenario outlined
long ago in this article from the Atlantic Monthly

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...an/climate.htm

could come to pass.

John Savard

On Aug 22, 5:05*pm, Quadibloc wrote:

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...an/climate.htm

could come to pass.

Having lived through unprecedented months of snow and ice for the last
two years I want a refund on my promised warming. I believe even a
mini ice age would be much harder for most of mankind to survive
compared with global warming. It would deny the world most of its
cereal crops and make the developed Northern hemisphere a much more
difficult place to live, work and travel. Losses to hypothermia
amongst the poor and the elderly could be catastrophic given the total
inadequacy of most home insulation and rising energy costs. In a worst
case scenario a major migration of the human race towards the equator
seems completely unworkable without a truly colossal reduction in our
numbers. We can but hope it is a complete flop rather than a real
flip. (if it ever occurs)

On Aug 22, 9:39*am, "Chris.B" wrote:
I believe even a
mini ice age would be much harder for most of mankind to survive
compared with global warming.

As I live in Edmonton, Alberta, I believe that a mini-ice-age would be
much harder for _me_ to survive compared with global warming. Since
most of mankind is poor and lives in the tropics near the Equator, I
can't be sure about how they would fare, although they might indeed
have problems surviving of an *indirect* nature... such as _being_
that part of humanity's numbers being reduced to facilitate a
migration of the rich and well-armed part of humanity towards the
Equator.

John Savard

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

As I live in Edmonton, Alberta, I believe that a mini-ice-age would be
much harder for _me_ to survive compared with global warming.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. People can easily deal with either
warmer or colder temperatures. But an overall drop in temperatures in
the temperate northern hemisphere is probably much less stressful to
societies in general. There is more water, and crops will probably
fair better. You are much more likely to suffer from the societal
collapses that occur due to the resource issues and natural disasters
that are peculiar to global warming, and not so much to cooling.

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:14:42 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

As I live in Edmonton, Alberta, I believe that a mini-ice-age would be
much harder for _me_ to survive compared with global warming.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. People can easily deal with either
warmer or colder temperatures. But an overall drop in temperatures in
the temperate northern hemisphere is probably much less stressful to
societies in general. There is more water, and crops will probably
fair better. You are much more likely to suffer from the societal
collapses that occur due to the resource issues and natural disasters
that are peculiar to global warming, and not so much to cooling.


http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/...e_ice_age.html

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:43:22 -0500, "David Staup"
wrote:

http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/...e_ice_age.html

And your point?

I'm not arguing that a mini-ice age is good, only that it is less
disruptive than the currently observed warming trend is likely to be.

On Aug 22, 1:58*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:
But an overall drop in temperatures in
the temperate northern hemisphere is probably much less stressful to
societies in general.

Depends on the size of the drop. If the glaciers start moving, I will
have to get out of the way.

John Savard

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:10:36 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

Depends on the size of the drop. If the glaciers start moving, I will
have to get out of the way.

Sure. But nobody is predicting the return of massive glaciation here.
Just something like the Little Ice Age that hit the northern
hemisphere a few hundred years ago.

On Aug 22, 5:21*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Sure. But nobody is predicting the return of massive glaciation here.
Just something like the Little Ice Age that hit the northern
hemisphere a few hundred years ago.

True. But if the crops fail all across the Northern Hemisphere because
of a "year without a summer", it's unclear where we are supposed to
buy our food from.

So that it could be more catastrophic, even if just for the developed
world, than the ordinary consequences of global warming does seem
plausible in that case as well.

John Savard

On Aug 23, 4:17*am, Quadibloc wrote:
On Aug 22, 5:21*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Sure. But nobody is predicting the return of massive glaciation here.
Just something like the Little Ice Age that hit the northern
hemisphere a few hundred years ago.

True. But if the crops fail all across the Northern Hemisphere because
of a "year without a summer", it's unclear where we are supposed to
buy our food from.

So that it could be more catastrophic, even if just for the developed
world, than the ordinary consequences of global warming does seem
plausible in that case as well.


Isn't cooling supposed to make for drier conditions? Cold air holds
less moisture. Lack of rainfall leads to drought. Crops are stunted or
fail. We already have months of permafrost at only 55N in Scandinavia.
The last two years we have had many months of snow cover. Over the
previous decade you couldn't give away kids sleighs let alone sell
them. They were about as useful as chocolate teapots! Snow, if it
came, was very short lived. Where were the iced over lakes and ponds
which produced the demand for thousands of ice skates?

Temperatures haven't been particularly low compared with some previous
winter extremes but the snow lay long and undiminished where it was
undisturbed. Frost heave was having unwanted effects on surfaces,
poles, gates, tracks and structures. This suggests (to me at least)
that only small changes in local climate can have quite remarkable
effects.

The cost of repeated snow clearing and regular road salting has been
hurting local government budgets too. Britain ran out of road salt and
had to import it. The lack of salt made the headlines. Long winters
mean building work is delayed. The modern use of huge vehicles to
supply even the smallest supermarkets is far more subject to weather
conditions. Leading to repeated shortages of basic foodstuffs.