New Alliant-EADS rocket venture

I'm missing something here. EADS and Alliant Techsystems will take
Alliant's Ares-1, add an EADS - Ariane upper stage, and build a new
rocket called "Liberty" to try to capture NASA and international
business ferry astronauts and cargo to orbit. I wish them well, but I
don't get the business plan. They are behind Lockheed Martin, Boeing,
and especially SpaceX in this venture, not to mention Russia. They
will need some kind of real cost breakthrough to capture business, and
I don't see where it will come from in the information released so
far. At the same time, these are experienced folks who must think they
have some real chance of success. Any thoughts?

Matt Bille
www.mattwriter.com
All posts are solely the personal opinion of the author as a private
citizen

Matt wrote:
I'm missing something here. EADS and Alliant Techsystems will take
Alliant's Ares-1, add an EADS - Ariane upper stage, and build a new
rocket called "Liberty" to try to capture NASA and international
business ferry astronauts and cargo to orbit. I wish them well, but I
don't get the business plan. They are behind Lockheed Martin, Boeing,
and especially SpaceX in this venture, not to mention Russia. They
will need some kind of real cost breakthrough to capture business, and
I don't see where it will come from in the information released so
far. At the same time, these are experienced folks who must think they
have some real chance of success. Any thoughts?

Perhaps the food will be better on the Ariane upper stage than on the
U.S. and Russian flights and so people won't mind the shaking so much?

rick jones
--
The glass is neither half-empty nor half-full. The glass has a leak.
The real question is "Can it be patched?"
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

Matt wrote:

I'm missing something here. EADS and Alliant Techsystems will take
Alliant's Ares-1, add an EADS - Ariane upper stage, and build a new
rocket called "Liberty" to try to capture NASA and international
business ferry astronauts and cargo to orbit. I wish them well, but I
don't get the business plan. They are behind Lockheed Martin, Boeing,
and especially SpaceX in this venture, not to mention Russia. They
will need some kind of real cost breakthrough to capture business, and
I don't see where it will come from in the information released so
far. At the same time, these are experienced folks who must think they
have some real chance of success. Any thoughts?

They claim to be slightly cheaper that the Atlas V.

May the best lobbyist win.

--
Mvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark

On 2/8/2011 8:35 AM, Matt wrote:
I'm missing something here. EADS and Alliant Techsystems will take
Alliant's Ares-1, add an EADS - Ariane upper stage, and build a new
rocket called "Liberty" to try to capture NASA and international
business ferry astronauts and cargo to orbit. I wish them well, but I
don't get the business plan. They are behind Lockheed Martin, Boeing,
and especially SpaceX in this venture, not to mention Russia. They
will need some kind of real cost breakthrough to capture business, and
I don't see where it will come from in the information released so
far. At the same time, these are experienced folks who must think they
have some real chance of success. Any thoughts?

Well, looking at the drawing of the thing, it's certainly going to be
tall enough:
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=32686
When I first saw the drawing of it, I assumed they had enlarged the
center drawing; but they hadn't...it really is supposed to be around as
tall as a Saturn V.
It would make a lot more sense just to use a stock Ariane V, and pretty
much remove all development costs.

Pat

On 2/8/2011 9:55 AM, Rick Jones wrote:

Perhaps the food will be better on the Ariane upper stage than on the
U.S. and Russian flights and so people won't mind the shaking so much?

When ESA was working on the Hermes mini-shuttle, one of the first things
they figured out, even before the final shape of the vehicle, was the
menu for the crew; I'm not kidding, that really was the case.

Here's an abbreviated version of what was on the menu, from Ron Miller's
"The Dream Machines" page 597.

Entrées: Pâté au poivre vert, Crème de crabe, Boeuf assaisonne.

Plats cuisinés: Sauté Veau Marengo (lyophilisé) Boeuf bourguion, Fondue
de queue de boeuf à la tomate confete et aux cornichons, Compote de
Pigeon aux dattes, Canard à la cuillere et aux artichaux.

Fromages: Fromage de gruyére, Fromage de cantal.

Desserts: Creme a chocolat, Gàteau de riz, Palets de pàtes de fruits.

Pain: Pain de seigle, Pain de Mie, Boule de Pain.

To me, it sounds like the biggest threat the crew would face during
flight is heart failure from too rich of food. :-D

Pat

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:35:31 -0800 (PST), Matt
wrote:

I'm missing something here. EADS and Alliant Techsystems will take
Alliant's Ares-1, add an EADS - Ariane upper stage, and build a new
rocket called "Liberty" to try to capture NASA and international
business ferry astronauts and cargo to orbit. I wish them well, but I
don't get the business plan. They are behind Lockheed Martin, Boeing,
and especially SpaceX in this venture, not to mention Russia. They
will need some kind of real cost breakthrough to capture business, and
I don't see where it will come from in the information released so
far. At the same time, these are experienced folks who must think they
have some real chance of success. Any thoughts?

What was the last ATK built rocket? Remember ALV-X1 out of Wallops? A
resounding success. Anyone every hear the results of the mishap
investigation?

On 2/8/2011 1:09 PM, Niels Jørgen Kruse wrote:

They claim to be slightly cheaper that the Atlas V.

May the best lobbyist win.

That thing doesn't even look like it would be aerodynamically stable,
especially given the AFT CG from the heavy SRB.

Pat

..

I've already suggested to use the Ariane5 core stage as Ares-1 second
stage FOUR YEARS AGO in this article:

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/024aresF.html

however, a 21-tons-payload man-rated Ariane5 alone already is able to
carry an orbital version of the Orion, as proposed FIVE YEARS AGO in
this article:

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/010arianecev.html

..

In article cfd7c05a-148f-44c8-a6ed-84bdfdf351b8
@u3g2000vbe.googlegroups.com, says...

.

I've already suggested to use the Ariane5 core stage as Ares-1 second
stage FOUR YEARS AGO in this article:

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/024aresF.html

however, a 21-tons-payload man-rated Ariane5 alone already is able to
carry an orbital version of the Orion, as proposed FIVE YEARS AGO in
this article:

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/010arianecev.html

.

To killfile hell with you again!

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011