NASA gives up on Science

February 26, 2004

Now it's Art.

http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20040225A.html

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies life,
which implies fossils, which we observe.

Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:

February 26, 2004

Now it's Art.

http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20040225A.html

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies life,

....which doesn't follow. Water =/ life.


--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 05:04:26 GMT, in a place far, far away, Scott
Lowther made the phosphor on
my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies life,

...which doesn't follow. Water =/ life.

Mr. Elifritz is capable of inferring many things that aren't implied.

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 05:04:26 GMT, in a place far, far away, Scott
Lowther made the phosphor on
my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies
life,

...which doesn't follow. Water =/ life.

Mr. Elifritz is capable of inferring many things that aren't implied.

I've implied many times that he is an idiot looking for attention.

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:

February 26, 2004

Now it's Art.

http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20040225A.html

The do not even tell us where on mars this picture was taken.

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies life,
which implies fossils, which we observe.

It is similar to the chaotic terrains. Maybe ground ice evapourated here
and the soil collapsed.

I will believe in fossils only if I see them.



--
http://www.geocities.com/carla_sch/index.html

In sci.space.policy Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
February 26, 2004

Now it's Art.

http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20040225A.html

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies life,

Water does not imply life. No water might be taken to imply no life (assuming
other potentialy suitable liquids weren't persent) but water in itself does
not in any way imply life, or even really a possibility of it.

which implies fossils, which we observe.

Similarily, life does not imply fossiles.


Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net


--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

"Carla Schneider" wrote in message
...



I will believe in fossils only if I see them.




The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make clear imo.


Sphere close up of Opportunity outcrop
1) http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML

Gemmule photo
2) http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plfeb96.htm#gemmules

"During the spring gemmule "hatch", the peripheral thesocytes
differentiate into a pinacoderm that balloons out, like a bubblegum
bubble, through the micropyle. This micropyle bubble makes
contact and attaches to the substratum"
http://64.78.63.75/samples/04BIORupp...oology7ch5.pdf

Sphere with bubble
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML



Raw thread image
3) http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news....tegory=Science
4) http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML

Imprints of skeletal spicules, very small thread sticking out and casting a shadow
upper left corner beneath the two large brown patches.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML

Sponge wall rover image, left of center
5) http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2932M1M1.HTML

Diagram of sponge wall, bottom of page
6) http://paleo.cortland.edu/tutorial/P...a/porifera.htm



All raw Rover images can be found here
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...portunity.html


The correlation between the Rover images and a sponge
gemmule are many.

1) Both show a surface that is grainy, or covered with spicules
2) Both show the aperture and slice
3) Image 3 shows a skeletal spicule as in the left
of image 2 just above the word gemmule
4) A gemmule would explain the shiny spheres
5) A gemmule would explain why only some of
the Rover spheres show an aperture.
6) A gemmule would explain the occassional sphere 'twins' or bubble.
7) The Opportunity site was chosen for a possible
previous marine environment, which sponges
occupy.
8) A sponge release of gemmules would explain the uniform
and random distribution of the spheres, since no impact
boulders or nearby volcanoes are seen near the site.
9) Sponges were perhaps the very first animal life
on earth, we should expect a similar first life on Mars.
10 Sponges, spongilla, are known to have a symbiotic
relationship with sulfur reducing bacteria, and use it for
a primary food source. Such bacteria is associated with
hematite, thrives off elemental sulfur, low oxygen and salty
environments.




Overhead views of Meridiani
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/01/24/
The second image shows how the density of spheres
settled in the channels. This image shows a recent
reef system I believe.


Sponge covered rock?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2555R1M1.HTML



Dark dunes
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/gall.../PIA01695.html
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/...se/7707rel.gif
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/gall.../PIA02398.html

It appears that ancient furrows, following precisely where water would stand, are
covered in a blanket of dark material similar to the Opportunity site.
The clearly defined, if not startling, outline of the dark material shows that
fallout from impacts or eruptions are not a possibility. This dark canyons
may be additional blooms of recent marine life.




"Each gemmule is covered with a protective outer layer and a
foraminal aperture. In some species the gemmules are also covered with spicules.
Gemmules are commonly produced during the fall, and like the overwintering turions of
duckweeds, are able to survive severe winter conditions. The gemmules can withstand
repeated freezings and thawings and may be viable for three years are more.
Upon germination, a creamy mass of amoebocytes slowly flows out of the
foraminal aperture."
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plfeb96.htm#gemmules



"One exciting place (that is accessible for some coastal biology classes) to observe
living sponges is in intertidal sea caves found along rocky ocean shores. Biology
students who investigate these geological features are likely to find 'living
paintings' on the cave walls, formed by sponges or groups of sponges. In high
wave-shock areas, these sponges are usually only a centimeter or two in thickness.

The formation of gemmules is another form of asexual reproduction. This strategy is
common for freshwater sponges, but rare in marine species. The gemmule is a
densely-matted, hardened ball containing archeocytes protected by collagen and special
spicules. In freshwater sponges, these balls survive through the winter and then form
a new clone in the spring.
http://ebiomedia.com/prod/BOsponges.html



"Frozen water makes up as much as 10 percent of the top meter (three feet)
of surface material in some regions close to the equator."
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/odys...20031208a.html




Jonathan Maatsch
j0nathan @comcast.net



s
















--
http://www.geocities.com/carla_sch/index.html

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:04:11 +0100, Carla Schneider
wrote:

It is similar to the chaotic terrains ....

Yeah, I was thinking it looks very fractal-ish.




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In article , Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:

To me, it's melting ice sheets, which implies water, which implies life,
which implies fossils, which we observe.

Whilst melting ice sheets sort of by definition imply water, your chain
of reasoning tries desperately to run uphill after that - fossils imply
life, and life many well imply water, but implication is not
commutative...

--
-Andrew Gray