Looking for a silver lining

"Okay, we've got a great LES here for some future rocket":
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1002/18orionlas/

"According to an Orbital spokesperson, the firm expects to recognize
between $55 million and $60 million in revenue from the abort system
contract in 2010. Revenues from the program were $200 million and $100
million in 2008 and 2009, respectively, the official said."

Shouldn't somebody from NASA have gotten on the phone with them and told
them to freeze work on it when Orion got canceled?

Pat

They should be talking to Boeing...

Dave

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:15:43 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:


Shouldn't somebody from NASA have gotten on the phone with them and told
them to freeze work on it when Orion got canceled?

They're forbidden to do so by law, courtesy Congress, which has to
approve any cancellation of Constellation work. So far, they haven't
passed the President's budget request, so NASA must keep going as
before.

Brian

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:17:55 -0500, David Spain
wrote:

They should be talking to Boeing...

Lockheed-Martin.

Brian

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:17 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Brian Thorn wrote:
Shouldn't somebody from NASA have gotten on the phone with them and told
them to freeze work on it when Orion got canceled?

They're forbidden to do so by law, courtesy Congress, which has to
approve any cancellation of Constellation work. So far, they haven't
passed the President's budget request, so NASA must keep going as
before.

I don't mean to tell them to cancel the whole thing, just not to spend
any more money on it till the budget gets the thumbs-up or down.

No. Contract law means NASA can't withhold payment just because they
don't want it anymore. They'd have to show cause, i.e., OSC (or
LockMart, whoever is prime) failing to perform, and even then OSC
would be able to challenge the decision, which could take weeks or
months. OSC has already done a lot of work preparing facilities and
hiring people to do the work NASA contracted them to do, so they need
the money NASA committed to them to meet their own obligations. That's
why there is so much money in the FY11 request to terminate
Constellation contracts.

Yes, this is a complete fiasco. I do hope Congress realizes that and
orders Orion (baselined on EELV) to continue as a backup to the
commercial offerings. At least waste a little less of that taxpayer
moolah.

Right now it looks like they are trying to rip off the taxpayers by
running up bills on a thing that is supposed to be dead.
Doesn't it fall under Bolden's purview to tell them to wait a bit?

Congress (specifically Sen. Shelby) has already yelled at him for
letting KSC (try to) cancel an Ares facilities work contract.

Brian

Brian Thorn wrote:
Shouldn't somebody from NASA have gotten on the phone with them and told
them to freeze work on it when Orion got canceled?

They're forbidden to do so by law, courtesy Congress, which has to
approve any cancellation of Constellation work. So far, they haven't
passed the President's budget request, so NASA must keep going as
before.

I don't mean to tell them to cancel the whole thing, just not to spend
any more money on it till the budget gets the thumbs-up or down.
Right now it looks like they are trying to rip off the taxpayers by
running up bills on a thing that is supposed to be dead.
Doesn't it fall under Bolden's purview to tell them to wait a bit?

Pat

Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:17:55 -0500, David Spain
wrote:

They should be talking to Boeing...

Lockheed-Martin.

RSC Energia.
After all:
http://rt.com/prime-time/2008-11-15/...FQYMDQodrVUrlQ
How will the astronauts get to the NovoBuran as it rests on the launchpad?
Why, in Moller Flying Cars of course. ;-)

Pat

On Feb 20, 3:39�pm, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:17 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Brian Thorn wrote:
Shouldn't somebody from NASA have gotten on the phone with them and told
them to freeze work on it when Orion got canceled?

They're forbidden to do so by law, courtesy Congress, which has to
approve any cancellation of Constellation work. So far, they haven't
passed the President's budget request, so NASA must keep going as
before.

I don't mean to tell them to cancel the whole thing, just not to spend
any more money on it till the budget gets the thumbs-up or down.

No. Contract law means NASA can't withhold payment just because they
don't want it anymore. They'd have to show cause, i.e., OSC (or
LockMart, whoever is prime) failing to perform, and even then OSC
would be able to challenge the decision, which could take weeks or
months. OSC has already done a lot of work preparing facilities and
hiring people to do the work NASA contracted them to do, so they need
the money NASA committed to them to meet their own obligations. That's
why there is so much money in the FY11 request to terminate
Constellation contracts.

Yes, this is a complete fiasco. I do hope Congress realizes that and
orders Orion (baselined on EELV) to continue as a backup to the
commercial offerings. At least waste a little less of that taxpayer
moolah.

Right now it looks like they are trying to rip off the taxpayers by
running up bills on a thing that is supposed to be dead.
Doesn't it fall under Bolden's purview to tell them to wait a bit?

Congress (specifically Sen. Shelby) has already yelled at him for
letting KSC (try to) cancel an Ares facilities work contract.

Brian

It was a PREVENTABLE FIASCO

NASA should of gone with existing expendables right after columbia and
by now we would be flying. No booster needed, just need a capsule and
service module.

but greedy nasa demanded a too large capsule so existing expendables
couldnt be used, so they would have more pork to pass out, well
taxpayers money but really pork.

Ares came back to bite them, since it was a bad design and most here
knew that from the day it was announced.

So nasa will be forced to get out of the launch business A
altoghether necessary step.

NASA should consider itself lucky the ISS budget wasnt zeroed too.

NASA is no longer capable of running anything but passing out pork

Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:17 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Brian Thorn wrote:
Shouldn't somebody from NASA have gotten on the phone with them and told
them to freeze work on it when Orion got canceled?
They're forbidden to do so by law, courtesy Congress, which has to
approve any cancellation of Constellation work. So far, they haven't
passed the President's budget request, so NASA must keep going as
before.
I don't mean to tell them to cancel the whole thing, just not to spend
any more money on it till the budget gets the thumbs-up or down.

No. Contract law means NASA can't withhold payment just because they
don't want it anymore. They'd have to show cause, i.e., OSC (or
LockMart, whoever is prime) failing to perform, and even then OSC
would be able to challenge the decision, which could take weeks or
months. OSC has already done a lot of work preparing facilities and
hiring people to do the work NASA contracted them to do, so they need
the money NASA committed to them to meet their own obligations. That's
why there is so much money in the FY11 request to terminate
Constellation contracts.

It is worth adding that this is the result of the Congressional Budget
and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, passed in response to Nixon's abuse
of impoundment to eliminate funding for programs he opposed. The Act
effectively eliminated the presidential power of impoundment and gave
the full power of the purse back to Congress.

Obama's budget proposal is for FY11. Congress appropriated funds for CxP
in FY10, so unless Congress passes a supplemental appropriations bill,
those funds must be spent on CxP until the end of FY10. The Executive
Branch (of which NASA is a part) cannot stop spending the FY10 funds on
CxP simply because the FY11 budget proposal cancels the program.

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:17:55 -0500, David Spain
wrote:

They should be talking to Boeing...

Lockheed-Martin.

Brian


I distinctly remember reading Griffin saying that he wanted
to hurry up the program and try to spend so much it
wouldn't get canceled even if the next administration
wanted to. I bet this is just one of many examples of
that kind of moronic policy.

Be nice if next time they just came up with a popular policy
that could be defended on it's merits. Instead of spending
so much thought on trying to figure out how to shove an
unpopular and wasteful program down the throats of
the American people, whether they want it, or not.

What is it, $2.2 billion just to terminate The Vision?

S