Peru or Chile?

I recently conceived the idea of taking advantage of my
current unemployment by taking a short (2-3 week) trip to
some exotic destination. For reasons too complicated to
explain, this would be a trip all by myself, without my
wife and daughter. One very attractive option would be
a trip to South America, with the primary purpose of
observing the southern sky and the secondary purpose of
visiting the Andes.

I don't want to postpone the trip too long, for fear that
I might (heaven forbid!) stumble on an attractive job
before I get to go. On the other hand, I can't do it
too soon, because I need to spend at least a month
taking an intensive Spanish course. Bad enough that
I live in the U.S. and don't speak Spanish; I'm
certainly not going to visit South America without
at least making a serious effort. What with one thing
and another, the obvious times for the trip are either
late October or late November.

The obvious destinations are Peru and Chile. The advantages
of Peru are that I have relatives in Lima and that Peru is
one of the premiere historical and archaeological destinations
in the world. The disadvantages of Peru are that the rainy
season in the Peruvian Andes starts in October, that it is
not very far south of the equator, and that it has lots of
crime and political unrest. The advantages of Chile are
that it is much farther south (Santiago, anyway), and that
it is relatively safe and stable.

I would be grateful if anyone can offer any astro-relevant
advice about either country or both. For instance, just how
cloudy is it in (say) Cuzco in October or November? Is there
some better site in the foothills above the fogs of the
Pacific but not as wet as the high Andes? If there is an
active astro club somewhere with an observing site useable
by guests, that might well swing the balance. I note from
the Feb 2001 S+T that there is a new public observatory
near Vicuna Chile, but I'm not sure that's exactly what
I am after; I certainly don't need (or want) guides for
my astro-tour, although I would be delighted to chat with
them, insofar as my crippled Spanish will allow.

Thanks in advance,
Tony Flanders

Tony Flanders wrote:

and another, the obvious times for the trip are either
late October or late November...


The obvious destinations are Peru and Chile...

I would be grateful if anyone can offer any astro-relevant
advice about either country or both...

Tony,

You definitely want to go to Chile! The reason most of the new southern
observatories are being built there is that it's the best astronomical
climate in the world. The good news for you is that the best season
runs from about November through March, when three of four nights are
photometric. Not kind of clear, but photometric, and with very good
seeing in the foothills of the Andes. Here's some data for La Silla and
the more northerly (and even more remote) Paranal site:

http://www.eso.org/gen-fac/pubs/astclim/lasilla/

The seasonal breakdown is at:

http://www.eso.org/gen-fac/pubs/astc...loudyearly.gif


For comparison, the best it gets in the Southwest U.S. is June, when
just over 50% of the nights are clear. Some will claim much higher
values, but you need only go to the best data in Arizona, collected by
Brian Skiff, at:

http://www.lowell.edu/cgi-bin/www/clouds/clouds.cgi

There's no place in the continental U.S. that compares with the Andean
foothills for astronomical climate. I was able to visit Las Campanas
Observatory with Brian in November 1993 (gawd, 10 years ago!), where I
used my 13-inch scope. It was photometric on 10 of the 12 nights of our
stay, and partly cloudy the other two. Seeing was typically in the 0.5"
to 1.0" range. Unfortunately, the presence of a seismograph in the
roll-off building we used has eliminated amateurs from the mountain, to
my knowledge. La Silla would be a much tougher sell, but you might try
Cerro Tololo. I would love to go back, but my limited Spanish was
worthless when a Chilean (much different from Mexican) dialect was
added. I have no contacts there anymore. There are a couple amateurs
who have set up in Chile. One is the photographer Matt BenDaniel, who
lives in your area, I think. Another is Tom Matheson, who simply rented
a car in La Serena, and drove to near Vicuna.

You should consider the elevation. These coastal ranges have sites that
are at the optimal elevation for visual observing of 6000 to 8000 feet.
Above that can spell trouble for the eye-brain system regarding dark
adaptation. I always shy away from that star party at Lake Titicaca at
12,000 feet for this reason.

I am often tempted to become unemployed myself to do trips like the one
you are planning.

Tom
--
Tom Polakis
Tempe, AZ
Arizona Sky Pages
http://www.psiaz.com/polakis/

On 21 Jul 2003 17:31:24 -0700, (Tony Flanders) ...reflected:

For reasons too complicated to
explain, this would be a trip all by myself, without my
wife and daughter.

Why, the reasons wouldn't be complicated at all.

They're clear as a bell, as a matter of fact.

8^)

Alan

For reasons too complicated to
explain, this would be a trip all by myself, without my
wife and daughter.

That's easy to explain. You are going through a mid life crises.

Tom Polakis wrote in message ...

You definitely want to go to Chile! The reason most of the new southern
observatories are being built there is that it's the best astronomical
climate in the world. The good news for you is that the best season
runs from about November through March, when three of four nights are
photometric. Not kind of clear, but photometric, and with very good
seeing in the foothills of the Andes...

Consider also what you will actually *see* in the sky -
a good star chart or mapping program will be handy here.

As part of my research for a trip to Australia last
year I picked up a copy of The Southern Sky Guide by
Ellyard and Tirion, ran some simulations in XEphem, and
concluded that April would be a good time to go (not
in your time frame, I know...). This was very good
for the Centaurus/Carina part of the Milky Way, but
not so hot for the Magellanic Clouds. Next time. :-)

I still remember walking down John Street (the Newell
Highway, with that weird back-in angle parking that
NSW country towns are so fond of) in Coonabarabran
at dusk and watching Alpha and Beta Centauri come out,
followed by the Southern Cross. Magic!

Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte

(Tony Flanders) wrote in message
m...



The obvious destinations are Peru and Chile. The advantages
of Peru are that I have relatives in Lima and that Peru is
one of the premiere historical and archaeological destinations
in the world. The disadvantages of Peru are that the rainy
season in the Peruvian Andes starts in October, that it is
not very far south of the equator, and that it has lots of
crime and political unrest. The advantages of Chile are
that it is much farther south (Santiago, anyway), and that

In my quest to visit all the major observatories around the
world, I visited Paranal in Chile with a group to see the VLT
in 2000. At the time it was under construction, but the sight
of 4 x 8.2 meter telescopes was impressive nonetheless. The
only clouds we saw were the ones in the Milky Way - never have
I been so reminded of the fact that we live in a spiral galaxy
than on that trip. The government there have a refreshing view,
which is: more telescopes = more money. It is a great shame
that can't be said of the Hawaiian government:

http://skyandtelescope.com/news/article_1009_1.asp

In a race between the Keck interferometer and the VLTI, it looks
like the Europeans are going to show us how it's done.

Alex Walls wrote:

In a race between the Keck interferometer and the VLTI, it looks
like the Europeans are going to show us how it's done.

I agree. I visited ESO headquarters in Garching, Germany in May and was
very impressed. I definitely think they're going to be showing the rest
of the world the way.

Mike Simmons

Chile by all means. As you note, the political situation in Peru isn't
good. The poverty in Lima is unbelieveable.

And, while in Chile you can do some of the best dove hunting on the
planet.

Coppy


(Tony Flanders) wrote in message m...
I recently conceived the idea of taking advantage of my
current unemployment by taking a short (2-3 week) trip to
some exotic destination. For reasons too complicated to
explain, this would be a trip all by myself, without my
wife and daughter. One very attractive option would be
a trip to South America, with the primary purpose of
observing the southern sky and the secondary purpose of
visiting the Andes.

I don't want to postpone the trip too long, for fear that
I might (heaven forbid!) stumble on an attractive job
before I get to go. On the other hand, I can't do it
too soon, because I need to spend at least a month
taking an intensive Spanish course. Bad enough that
I live in the U.S. and don't speak Spanish; I'm
certainly not going to visit South America without
at least making a serious effort. What with one thing
and another, the obvious times for the trip are either
late October or late November.

The obvious destinations are Peru and Chile. The advantages
of Peru are that I have relatives in Lima and that Peru is
one of the premiere historical and archaeological destinations
in the world. The disadvantages of Peru are that the rainy
season in the Peruvian Andes starts in October, that it is
not very far south of the equator, and that it has lots of
crime and political unrest. The advantages of Chile are
that it is much farther south (Santiago, anyway), and that
it is relatively safe and stable.

I would be grateful if anyone can offer any astro-relevant
advice about either country or both. For instance, just how
cloudy is it in (say) Cuzco in October or November? Is there
some better site in the foothills above the fogs of the
Pacific but not as wet as the high Andes? If there is an
active astro club somewhere with an observing site useable
by guests, that might well swing the balance. I note from
the Feb 2001 S+T that there is a new public observatory
near Vicuna Chile, but I'm not sure that's exactly what
I am after; I certainly don't need (or want) guides for
my astro-tour, although I would be delighted to chat with
them, insofar as my crippled Spanish will allow.

Thanks in advance,
Tony Flanders