A retrospective look at Sirius B in its red supergiant phase

Red giant stars are many, and yet still a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the color saturated eye-candy profiles that
we’ve been taught to accept. However, the visible spectrum is
extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically accessible from
just above and below our genetically limited and thus inferior visual
spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution was so careless
in having discarded so much visual capability, in that other creatures
seem to have a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some
UV and IR)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail”
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...l_077 84.html
Mira A of several hundred solar radii (UV colorized as bluish): “A
dying star situated 400 light years away from us exhibits an unusual
and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for more than 13 light
years.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR
http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...aab_v2_col.pdf

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth nearly 3 fold the mass of the original Sirius B,
and currently expanded to 1000 solar radii, and it'll be truly
impressive nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf nearly the
size of Jupiter.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum and resolution of most everything, along with other
existing and soon to be deployed telescopes should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like. This may give
some of us a better interpretation as to what transpired right next
door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of what
our solar system has to offer.

~ BG

On Apr 27, 4:47*am, BradGuth wrote:
Red giant stars are many, and yet still a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the color saturated eye-candy profiles that
we’ve been taught to accept. *However, the visible spectrum is
extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically accessible from
just above and below our genetically limited and thus inferior visual
spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution was so careless
in having discarded so much visual capability, in that other creatures
seem to have a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some
UV and IR)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail”
*http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T....
*Mira A of several hundred solar radii (UV colorized as bluish): “A
dying star situated 400 light years away from us exhibits an unusual
and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for more than 13 light
years.”
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m....

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. *For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth nearly 3 fold the mass of the original Sirius B,
and currently expanded to 1000 solar radii, and it'll be truly
impressive nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf nearly the
size of Jupiter.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum and resolution of most everything, along with other
existing and soon to be deployed telescopes should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like. *This may give
some of us a better interpretation as to what transpired right next
door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of what
our solar system has to offer.

*~ BG

Not so long ago the Sirius B star had become a very impressive red
supergiant, and according to the previous examples of similar stellar
evolution, this extremely nearby flashover from red supergiant to
becoming a white dwarf could not have gone unnoticed by whatever
terrestrial human, animal or plant. Just now wondering, besides the
extended IR, visible and UV bonus, how many days of gamma and hard X-
ray saturation are we talking about?

According to Steve Willner, the nearby stellar creation or cosmic
assimilation process of forming something like Sirius ABC transpired
fairly quickly, say within 10 some odd million years if all goes
according to plan, along with most of its protostellar disc remainders
having dissipated within only a few million years thereafter, rather
than the billion all-inclusive years that I’d previously thought.

On Apr 24, 1:10 pm, (Steve Willner) wrote:
The collapse time scale for an idealized giant molecular cloud is
about a million years. Real clouds collapse slower than that by
perhaps a factor of 10, probably because of internal gas turbulence.

You can see that the time scale is likely to be much shorter than
"billions of years" by observing that something over 90% of baryons
are incorporated into stars.

Protostellar disks form in a few hundred thousand years and dissipate
in a few million years. For galactic disks, formation time scales
are a few hundred million years. No "billions" at all.

This means that a minimum 12,000 120,000 solar mass molecular cloud
which gave birth to the original 12 solar mass of the Sirius star/
solar system took perhaps as little as 1215 million years to complete
that initial process, rapping everything up as of perhaps no greater
than 300 MBP to perhaps as recent as 250 MBP.

Meanwhile, our passive solar system was supposedly fully established
and cruising extremely nearby or even situated within the very same
molecular cloud, and yet somehow (far beyond my comprehension) having
managed to avoid any kind of give or take interactions or indirect
trauma or benefit from such a nearly cosmic event of collapsing
baryons that formed into the originally impressive Sirius star/solar
system, that’s still worth nearly 3.5 the mass of our solar system.

Perhaps Steve Willner along with a good public funded supercomputer
simulation can further improve our deductive understanding of this
nearby stellar formation and complex environment of such a nifty
molecular cloud, once again that of perhaps at least 12,000 120,000
solar masses, that supposedly didn’t affect us at its beginning,
throughout its normal stellar evolution, or that of its impressive red
supergiant phase that could easily have been worth 1000 radii, and of
its subsequent recent end of life phase at becoming a compact white
dwarf which thereby lost its tidal radius grip upon whatever planets
and possibly even a third significant main sequence star of 2e30 kg.
Are we lucky, or what!

~ BG

On Apr 27, 10:28*am, BradGuth wrote:
On Apr 27, 4:47*am, BradGuth wrote:



Red giant stars are many, and yet still a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the color saturated eye-candy profiles that
we’ve been taught to accept. *However, the visible spectrum is
extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically accessible from
just above and below our genetically limited and thus inferior visual
spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution was so careless
in having discarded so much visual capability, in that other creatures
seem to have a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some
UV and IR)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail”
*http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T...
*Mira A of several hundred solar radii (UV colorized as bluish): “A
dying star situated 400 light years away from us exhibits an unusual
and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for more than 13 light
years.”
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m...

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. *For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth nearly 3 fold the mass of the original Sirius B,
and currently expanded to 1000 solar radii, and it'll be truly
impressive nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf nearly the
size of Jupiter.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum and resolution of most everything, along with other
existing and soon to be deployed telescopes should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like. *This may give
some of us a better interpretation as to what transpired right next
door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of what
our solar system has to offer.

*~ BG

Not so long ago the Sirius B star had become a very impressive red
supergiant, and according to the previous examples of similar stellar
evolution, this extremely nearby flashover from red supergiant to
becoming a white dwarf could not have gone unnoticed by whatever
terrestrial human, animal or plant. *Just now wondering, besides the
extended IR, visible and UV bonus, how many days of gamma and hard X-
ray saturation are we talking about?

According to Steve Willner, the nearby stellar creation or cosmic
assimilation process of forming something like Sirius ABC transpired
fairly quickly, say within 10 some odd million years if all goes
according to plan, along with most of its protostellar disc remainders
having dissipated within only a few million years thereafter, rather
than the billion all-inclusive years that I’d previously thought.

On Apr 24, 1:10 pm, (Steve Willner) wrote:

The collapse time scale for an idealized giant molecular cloud is
about a million years. *Real clouds collapse slower than that by
perhaps a factor of 10, probably because of internal gas turbulence.

You can see that the time scale is likely to be much shorter than
"billions of years" by observing that something over 90% of baryons
are incorporated into stars.

Protostellar disks form in a few hundred thousand years and dissipate
in a few million years. *For galactic disks, formation time scales
are a few hundred million years. *No "billions" at all.

This means that a minimum 12,000 120,000 solar mass molecular cloud
which gave birth to the original 12 solar mass of the Sirius star/
solar system took perhaps as little as 1215 million years to complete
that initial process, rapping everything up as of perhaps no greater
than 300 MBP to perhaps as recent as 250 MBP.

Meanwhile, our passive solar system was supposedly fully established
and cruising extremely nearby or even situated within the very same
molecular cloud, and yet somehow (far beyond my comprehension) having
managed to avoid any kind of give or take interactions or indirect
trauma or benefit from such a nearly cosmic event of collapsing
baryons that formed into the originally impressive Sirius star/solar
system, that’s still worth nearly 3.5 the mass of our solar system.

Perhaps Steve Willner along with a good public funded supercomputer
simulation can further improve our deductive understanding of this
nearby stellar formation and complex environment of such a nifty
molecular cloud, once again that of perhaps at least 12,000 120,000
solar masses, that supposedly didn’t affect us at its beginning,
throughout its normal stellar evolution, or that of its impressive red
supergiant phase that could easily have been worth 1000 radii, and of
its subsequent recent end of life phase at becoming a compact white
dwarf which thereby lost its tidal radius grip upon whatever planets
and possibly even a third significant main sequence star of 2e30 kg.
Are we lucky, or what!

*~ BG

Clearly I've given links and cites as to what other red giants and red
supergiants tend to look and function like. Clearly our nearby Sirius
star/solar system suddenly emerged as perhaps originally worth 12
solar masses, subsequently burned through a sufficient bulk of its
hydrogen fuel like hell, unavoidably went red supergiant and
eventually flashed itself from the 500~1000 radii red supergiant phase
over to becoming the Sirius B white dwarf in a relatively short period
of time, and apparently not even all that long ago, that is unless the
laws of physics were different for that era.

So, where's all the supposed talent and expertise that can tell the
rest of us village idiots, as to why and/or how the hell our extremely
nearby solar system was unaffected?

~ BG

I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

Red giant stars are many, and yet remain a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the bloated size and color saturated eye-
candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept. However, the visible
spectrum is extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically
accessible from just above and below our genetically limited and thus
inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution
was rather careless in having discarded so much visual capability, in
that other creatures seem to have a far wider visual spectrum
capability that includes some UV and IR without any applied
technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of stellar motion for items of this volumetric size.
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...l_077 84.html
Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (5001000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR as
that of a red supergiant star.
http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...aab_v2_col.pdf

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of the
original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly the size
of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum, resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of
imaging most everything, along with other existing and soon to be
deployed telescopes should give us even better composite examples of
what Sirius B used to look like. This may give some of us a better
interpretation as to what transpired right next door to us, as well as
having unavoidably contributed to some of what our solar system has to
offer.

Perhaps there’s too much information about the Sirius star/solar
system for the public to grasp without causing more faith-based harm
than good.
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

~ BG

On May 3, 3:04*pm, BradGuth wrote:
I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

Red giant stars are many, and yet remain a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the bloated size and color saturated eye-
candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept. *However, the visible
spectrum is extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically
accessible from just above and below our genetically limited and thus
inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution
was rather careless in having discarded so much visual capability, in
that other creatures seem to have a far wider visual spectrum
capability that includes some UV and IR without any applied
technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” *The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of stellar motion for items of this volumetric size.
*http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T....
*Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” *Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (5001000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR as
that of a red supergiant star.
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m....

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. *For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of the
original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly the size
of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum, resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of
imaging most everything, along with other existing and soon to be
deployed telescopes should give us even better composite examples of
what Sirius B used to look like. *This may give some of us a better
interpretation as to what transpired right next door to us, as well as
having unavoidably contributed to some of what our solar system has to
offer.

Perhaps there’s too much information about the Sirius star/solar
system for the public to grasp without causing more faith-based harm
than good.
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

*~ BG

Not so terribly long ago Sirius_B had become a very impressive red
supergiant, and according to the previous examples of similar stellar
evolution, this extremely nearby hydrogen flashover from red
supergiant to becoming a white dwarf could not have gone unnoticed by
whatever terrestrial human, animal or plant. Just now further
pondering, besides the extended IR, visible and UV bonus that had to
exist, how many days of gamma and hard X-ray saturation are we talking
about?

According to Steve Willner, the nearby stellar creation or cosmic
assimilation process of forming something like Sirius ABC transpired
fairly quickly, say within 10 some odd million years if all goes
according to plan, along with most of its protostellar disc remainders
having dissipated within only a few million years thereafter, rather
than the billion all-inclusive years that I’d previously thought.

On Apr 24, 1:10 pm, (Steve Willner) wrote:
The collapse time scale for an idealized giant molecular cloud is
about a million years. Real clouds collapse slower than that by
perhaps a factor of 10, probably because of internal gas turbulence.

You can see that the time scale is likely to be much shorter than
"billions of years" by observing that something over 90% of baryons
are incorporated into stars.

Protostellar disks form in a few hundred thousand years and dissipate
in a few million years. For galactic disks, formation time scales
are a few hundred million years. No "billions" at all.

This means that a minimum 12,000 120,000 solar mass worthy molecular
cloud which gave birth to the original 12 solar mass of the Sirius
star/solar system took perhaps as little as 1215 million years in
order to complete that initial process, rapping everything up as of
perhaps no greater than 300 MBP to perhaps as recent as 250 MBP.

Meanwhile, our passive solar system was supposedly fully established
and cruising extremely nearby or even situated within that very same
molecular cloud, and yet somehow (far beyond my comprehension) having
managed to avoid any kind of give or take interactions, indirect
trauma or benefit from such a nearly cosmic event of collapsing
baryons forming into the originally impressive Sirius star/solar
system, that’s still worth nearly 3.5 the mass of our solar system.

Perhaps Steve Willner along with a good public funded supercomputer
simulation can further improve our deductive understanding of this
nearby stellar formation and complex environment of such a nifty
molecular cloud of perhaps at least 12,000 120,000 solar masses,
that supposedly didn’t affect us from its beginning, throughout its
normal stellar evolution, or that of its impressive red supergiant
phase that could easily have been worth 1000 radii, and of its
subsequent recent end of life phase at becoming a compact white dwarf
which thereby having lost its tidal radius grip upon whatever planets
and possibly even a third significant main sequence star of 2e30 kg.
Are we that lucky, or what!

~ BG

On May 3, 3:04*pm, BradGuth wrote:
I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

Red giant stars are many, and yet remain a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the bloated size and color saturated eye-
candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept. *However, the visible
spectrum is extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically
accessible from just above and below our genetically limited and thus
inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution
was rather careless in having discarded so much visual capability, in
that other creatures seem to have a far wider visual spectrum
capability that includes some UV and IR without any applied
technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” *The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of stellar motion for items of this volumetric size.
*http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T....
*Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” *Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (5001000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR as
that of a red supergiant star.
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m....

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. *For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of the
original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly the size
of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum, resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of
imaging most everything, along with other existing and soon to be
deployed telescopes should give us even better composite examples of
what Sirius B used to look like. *This may give some of us a better
interpretation as to what transpired right next door to us, as well as
having unavoidably contributed to some of what our solar system has to
offer.

Perhaps there’s too much information about the Sirius star/solar
system for the public to grasp without causing more faith-based harm
than good.
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

*~ BG

There’s more to creating a solar system than meets the naked eye,
because not everything we see is via natural cosmic perfection (in
most every instance it’s random happenstance, and in some cases it’s
looking rather complex and/or of weird physics that’s far from
perfection, and only getting worse as galaxies merge).

Here’s my 3nd or 4th revised/updated reply to wizard Paul A (pnals),
as being another one of our resident diehard anti-revisionist, plus
otherwise this effort is for anyone else without an original deductive
thought or a lose cannon to his/her name.

On Apr 7, 11:07 pm, wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:58 pm, BradGuth wrote:

You do realize that Sirius A is a fairly new star, and that Sirius B
could be something older than our sun.

************

Well, this statement is nonsense. Sirius A & B are a physical pair,
they orbit each other, and this means that in all probability they
were born at about the same time. This system is approximately
200-300 million years old, which is very young in astronomical terms,
and much younger than our sun, which is about 5 billion years old.

Interestingly, Sirius B was once the larger and probably brighter of
the two, but this meant that it evolved faster and today has already
proceeded to the white dwarf stage, whereas Sirius A is still in the
prime of its life. Eventually it, too, will become a white dwarf and
the system will be perhaps something like this one;

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18718111

So, you're another one of the ultra singular BB creation and forever
expansion purest at heart, that doesn't believe there's ever anything
rogue going on, no such mergers or encounters of any importance taking
place and otherwise nothing of significant cosmic interactions of any
kind taking place, and the Great Attractor plus a good number of
colliding galaxies and of those about to merge simply do not exist.
Well, aren't you special, especially since our Milky Way is likely
comprised of two galaxies as is, and at least part of our galaxy is
about to merge with part of the Andromeda galaxy. (gee whiz, what
could possibly go wrong?)


There is nothing special about the Sirius system, there are thousands
and thousands of others out there just like it.

But those other ones of any significant mass were not suddenly created
as situated right next door if not on top of us.


Sure, rogue events might happen here and there, but these would be
mostly in globular clusters where such chance encounters would be more
likely to occur.
\Paul A

I’ve always agreed and having frequently argued that binary and even
trinary star systems are pretty much the cosmic norm. However, we
have to realize what you are saying is that a truly impressive multi
light year expanse of highly dynamic and thus hugely volumetric zone
of sufficient cosmic saturated gas, having existed as of merely 300
million some odd years ago, of mostly hydrogen and otherwise helium
and a few other molecular elements that was sufficiently star creation
worthy, as situated right next door to our solar system, whereas
instead of such gas being gathered up by our nearby and well
formulated tidal radius of more than sufficient gravity influence
exceeding light years, having instead independently formulated itself
into a nifty pair of truly massive stars (Sirius B of 9 solar masses
and Sirius A of 2.5 solar masses, plus having created at least a
third significant other body of .06 solar mass as Sirius C).

Did I get that interpretation about right?

Considering everything about our universe and local galaxy had to have
been more compact and otherwise closer as of 300 million years ago,
we're talking about a sufficient volumetric kind of cosmic gaseous
cloud of roughly 12 solar masses (assuming 100% combining efficiency),
as happening right next door if not damn near on top of and/or easily
including us, and it just doesn't add up as to why that horrific and
nearby amount of such electric charged hydrogen wasn't the least bit
attracted to our pre-existing solar system mass of 2e30 kg. I mean to
ask, what the hell was wrong with all of that available hydrogen,
helium and the assortment of other elements, as why exactly didn’t we
get our fair share if we were here first?

In order to muster up 25e30 kg, that’s only 330 cubic light years of
1e-18 bar molecular hydrogen that’s supposedly worth 0.0899e-18 kg/m3,
though actually it’s of less cosmic ISM density because of such gas
being hot as hell and continually tidal force pulled apart or simply
diverted by the surrounding gravity of other nearby stars (such as our
sun), so let us make it worthy of at least 3300 ly3, and that’s only a
gaseous populated sphere of 18.5 light years diameter at 100% stellar
formation efficiency, and since we can safely say this star creating
process is never that good, so perhaps 33,000 ly3 as a collective
gravitational collapse worthy sphere of 40 ly is more like it.

The “Jeans Mass” for accommodating a sufficient “triggered star
formation” is suggesting much greater solar mass ratios of at least
1000:1 64,000:1 required for feeding the gravitational accretion
collapse process, of which easily puts our solar system smack within
the central realm of whatever culmination of cosmic matter and
formulating events that created Sirius ABC, making our 4+ billions of
years older solar system very much involved within that same stellar
birthing era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation

Were we actually that close to such a complex and absolutely vibrant
stellar birth as of 300 million years ago, plus then having Sirius B
going red-supergiant and then slow nova postal on us, and yet somehow
we remained unaffected? (Paul and others, are you joking?)

Perhaps if something of initial mass were to arrive and/or merge into
a smaller but sufficient molecular cloud of mostly hydrogen and helium
that would have still included our solar system, such as a brown dwarf
of 10~100 Mj, or possibly a small antimatter black hole could have
been the stellar seed, but perhaps that kind of reverse-nova or anti-
nova process too should have adversely affected our solar system that
was likely situated within that very same molecular cloud.

Within many complex theories to pick from http://
www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v11/i2/dinosaur.asp, supposedly the final
straw of our dinosaur extinction process took place as of merely 65
million years ago, of which seems to suggest the nearby red-giant and
subsequent slow nova of Sirius B (our second sun) suddenly becoming a
white dwarf and having lost its tidal radius grip on whatever planets,
planetoids and moons would have been a most likely contributor of this
otherwise robust biodiversity demise, that by rights should have
otherwise stood the test of time.

It seems highly unlikely that our solar system was unaffected by the
nearby Sirius star/solar system formation and of its subsequent red
supergiant demise in becoming a white dwarf. Clearly no one cosmic
and/or terrestrial event caused the great extinction process, although
physical impacts derived from the sudden demise of the Sirius B solar
system (perhaps including that of obtaining Venus plus an icy Selene
as our moon) would certainly have been trauma worthy of creating
thermal extremes and otherwise geophysically catastrophic towards
finishing off most of whatever was left of such robust life on Earth.

A 100% BradGuth theory: Prior to the final lithobraking, Eden/Earth
tilting, Arctic ocean basin creating and quite a few antipode mountain
producing kind of nasty sucker-punch encounter with an extremely icy
Selene, as of roughly 12,900 +/- some odd hundreds of years ago
(according to David Fastovsky), and subsequently as having become our
Selene/moon, whereas chances are there were a few orbital near miss
opportunities for creating some truly impressive tidal gravity
exchanges. By 11,711 BP the new seasonally improved skies were
finally clearing, and the last ever ice-age thaw from which Eden w/
moon is ever going to see was on. (trust me, there are a good number
of public owned and fully public funded supercomputers that could have
run this complex 3D interactive simulation as of a more than decade
ago)

Of course, here in Google/NOVA Groups (Usenet/newsgroups) land of
forever cloaking on behalf of their ultimate Dark Side and mostly
insurmountable naysayism plus mainstream obfuscation, denial and above
all consistently anti-revision mindsets, you’d think there would be a
little what-if elbow room for the give and take of fresh ideas,
especially since so much of astrophysics upon what we thought we knew
has been recently tossed out the proverbial window. Meanwhile, the
most vibrant and interesting star system that’s situated right next to
us remains as oddly taboo/nondisclosure rated, as though our NASA had
once landed on it, or that it’s hiding OBL plus Muslim WMD along with
all of those SEC red-flag reports that were never acted upon, and of
course those 700 large and clearly marked NASA/Apollo boxes of mission
related R&D, as-built documentation, plus loads of critical systems
and science data that seemed to vanish into thin air.

Perhaps there’s simply too much information about the Sirius star/
solar system for the public to grasp without causing more faith-based
harm than good.
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

BTW; I find that creation, intelligent design and natural evolution
can safely coexist most anywhere, except here on Eden/Earth. Seems
there’s an all or nothing terrestrial mindset that can only insure war
upon war as the one and only basis for settling anything, along with
the environment be damned and otherwise it’s nearly every man, woman,
child and creature for themselves (at this point it’s mostly the bugs,
microbes and viruses that are winning, because their DNA has mutated
for the better and they’ll be here and tougher than ever long after
we’re gone), while the human species of evolution seems only to flat-
line or evolve in the wrong direction, especially for a planet that’s
losing far more mass than it gains, and a badly failing geomagnetic
force that's going south, so to speak

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On May 3, 3:04*pm, BradGuth wrote:
I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

Red giant stars are many, and yet remain a little hard to come by, as
only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light years seem
to exist that fit within the bloated size and color saturated eye-
candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept. *However, the visible
spectrum is extremely limited as to what is otherwise technically
accessible from just above and below our genetically limited and thus
inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely odd that our human evolution
was rather careless in having discarded so much visual capability, in
that other creatures seem to have a far wider visual spectrum
capability that includes some UV and IR without any applied
technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” *The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of stellar motion for items of this volumetric size.
*http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T....
*Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” *Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been much like an image of Mira A, except a whole
lot larger (5001000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near IR as
that of a red supergiant star.
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m....

Mira A and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) star, thereby extremely hot and fast
burning prior to becoming a red supergiant, creating an impressive
planetary nebula phase before ending as the little white dwarf. *For
all we know Sirius B was even a variable kind of red giant and then
perhaps a slow nova flashover phase prior to finishing off as the
white dwarf.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red giant at 20+ fold the mass of our
sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of the
original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly the size
of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and improved Hubble should accomplish the
improved spectrum, resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of
imaging most everything, along with other existing and soon to be
deployed telescopes should give us even better composite examples of
what Sirius B used to look like. *This may give some of us a better
interpretation as to what transpired right next door to us, as well as
having unavoidably contributed to some of what our solar system has to
offer.

Perhaps there’s too much information about the Sirius star/solar
system for the public to grasp without causing more faith-based harm
than good.
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

*~ BG

Just when you think we’ve seen about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

Of course, going by the warm and fuzzy likes of our resident incest
mutated rabbi Saul Levy, the Sirius star/solar system may just as well
not have ever existed, as well as anything of a negative or blue
shifted velocity need not exist, such as even the not so far off Great
Attractor apparently doesn't exist, including whatever panspermia or
much less anything of ETID is simply faith-based banished and/or taboo/
nondisclosure rated.

I guess if you are a devout Zionist Nazi, as perhaps then perpetual
mainstream obfuscation and denial are the one any only alternatives.

~ BG

A “what if” retrospective look at Sirius B in its red supergiant
phase:

I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius
Not that far better instruments don’t exist that could easily
accomplish a thousand fold better and of multiple narrow bandpass
imaging results of Sirius, but what the hell when at least an honest
amateur gives us a no-charge freebie whack, because we got nothing to
lose but our self-rightists pride in all things faith-based and/or
government moderated.

Red giant stars are supposedly many, and yet remain a little hard to
come by, as only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light
years seem to exist that fit within the bloated size and color
saturated eye-candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept.
However, the visible spectrum is extremely limited as to what is
otherwise technically accessible from just above and below our
genetically limited and thus inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely
odd that our human evolution was rather careless in having discarded
so much nifty visual capability, in that other creatures seem to have
a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some UV and IR
without any need of applied technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of such stellar motion for items of this volumetric inflated
red giant size (a mere fraction of what the Sirius B red supergiant
had to have represented) http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...l_077 84.html
Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been looking much like an image of Mira A, except
a whole lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near
IR, as that of a nearby red supergiant star, nearly half that of the
star Betelgeuse.
http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...aab_v2_col.pdf

Mira A, and lots more composite observationology from FAS
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) and extremely vibrant star, thereby
extremely hot and fast consuming itself prior to becoming the
impressive red supergiant, creating another planetary nebula phase
before ending as the little white dwarf. For all we know Sirius B was
even a variable kind of red giant and then perhaps a slow nova
flashover phase prior to finishing off as the compressed white dwarf
we can barely see today.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red supergiant at 20+ fold the mass of
our sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of
the original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it suddenly transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly
the size of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and greatly improved Hubble instrument should
accomplish the improved spectrum coverage, along with improved
resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of imaging most
everything, along with other existing and soon to be ESA deployed
telescopes that are far superior yet, should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like, and quite
possibly our first light of Sirius C.

This kind of investment in astronomy should give some of us a better
deductive observationology interpretation as to what transpired right
next door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of
what our solar system has to offer. However, perhaps there’s too much
information about the Sirius star/solar system for the public to
grasp, without causing more faith-based and political harm than good.
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

~ BG

“A star is born when a dense patch of gas and dust collapses inside a
cosmic cloud”

For a stellar packed galaxy or even the individual stellar and/or
binary, trinary outcome, and the complex solar system disk of multiple
planets to start off with, it needs at least an nearby kicker or
perhaps two or more black holes merging or combining within a
sufficient cosmic molecular cloud of mostly hydrogen, plus some helium
and assorted other elements that just so happen to exist out of
nowhere. Otherwise, if there’s nothing of any gravity seeds or nearby
cosmic event(s) taking place, such as a supernova, whereas the natural
cosmic gas collapsing process via molecular gravity that’ll provide
for the primary star plus an accretion disk is going to take a great
deal of time, perhaps at least 10+ millions of years before any such
star materializes, much less stellar companions and/or worthy planets
created out of whatever cosmic molecular cloud remainders didn’t
become part of a given main sequence or greater primary star.

In other words of my limited but open-minded wisdom, no one here or
anywhere else really knows this timeline within any objective
certainty, of what a typical star and the remaining accretion disk
formation of planets requires. Only a limited number of complex
simulations has ever emerged, and few if any of those efforts are
similar enough to call it other than subjective or highly conditional
science with more complex variables than you and I can imagine.

Under the best of stellar creation/birthing conditions, such as
whatever created the nearby Sirius star/solar system, it should have
taken a cosmic molecular cloud proportion or volumetric area of at
least a thousand fold the mass of whatever stars get made, with
otherwise a few tens of thousands in stellar mass most likely
required. On average the necessary core molecular cloud density of
1e61e9 particles/cm3 is required in order to initiate and thereby
feed this initial core formation process, that’ll have to gravity suck
as uninterrupted upon that surrounding cosmic molecular medium of
1e41e6/cm3, all the way down to the vacuum of only a few particles/
cm3 or perhaps even less than 1/cm3, as well as the primary star flare-
up having subsequently solar wind blown away most of whatever
remainders that didn’t manage to become any other companion star(s),
planets and moons, as a highly complex process that should also take
at least millions of extra years.

Good thing for us this suddenly rotating disk of a complex stellar
creation process doesn't happen very often, however the original 12
solar massive Sirius star/solar system as having emerged right next
door, if not essentially on top of us, and supposedly having
formulated as of not much further back than 300 MBP from such a
complex molecular cloud of at least 12,000 solar masses, was certainly
one very lucky cosmic environment of nearby stellar creation for us,
that which I still find extremely hard to fathom this kind of
tremendous stellar birthing event supposedly didn’t affect us.
Perhaps this extremely recent creation of the Sirius star/solar system
and of its more recent hydrogen flashover to becoming a white dwarf
was always downwind, so to speak, though I find this analogy as
equally hard to fathom.

Of course, I and most others still have no good objective idea as to
where all of that vast volumetric expanse of mostly molecular
hydrogen, helium and a complex composite of many other elements came
from to start with, much less of where the hell a pair of black holes
or white/clear antimatter holes or that of any other significant
sources of a sufficient gravity seed worthy substance materialized
from in the first place. In other words, thus far no one knows with
sufficient certainty as to the exact time-line of how a star is born,
or even knowing the demise process of a main sequence star is now
entirely in question, at risk of being far more complex than anyone
can imagine.

~ BG


On May 5, 12:57*pm, BradGuth wrote:
A “what if” retrospective look at Sirius B in its red supergiant
phase:

I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius
*Not that far better instruments don’t exist that could easily
accomplish a thousand fold better and of multiple narrow bandpass
imaging results of Sirius, but what the hell when at least an honest
amateur gives us a no-charge freebie whack, because we got nothing to
lose but our self-rightists pride in all things faith-based and/or
government moderated.

Red giant stars are supposedly many, and yet remain a little hard to
come by, as only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light
years seem to exist that fit within the bloated size and color
saturated eye-candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept.
However, the visible spectrum is extremely limited as to what is
otherwise technically accessible from just above and below our
genetically limited and thus inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely
odd that our human evolution was rather careless in having discarded
so much nifty visual capability, in that other creatures seem to have
a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some UV and IR
without any need of applied technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” *The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of such stellar motion for items of this volumetric inflated
red giant size (a mere fraction of what the Sirius B red supergiant
had to have represented)http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T...
*Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” *Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been looking much like an image of Mira A, except
a whole lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near
IR, as that of a nearby red supergiant star, nearly half that of the
star Betelgeuse.
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m....

Mira A, and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) and extremely vibrant star, thereby
extremely hot and fast consuming itself prior to becoming the
impressive red supergiant, creating another planetary nebula phase
before ending as the little white dwarf. *For all we know Sirius B was
even a variable kind of red giant and then perhaps a slow nova
flashover phase prior to finishing off as the compressed white dwarf
we can barely see today.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red supergiant at 20+ fold the mass of
our sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of
the original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it suddenly transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly
the size of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and greatly improved Hubble instrument should
accomplish the improved spectrum coverage, along with improved
resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of imaging most
everything, along with other existing and soon to be ESA deployed
telescopes that are far superior yet, should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like, and quite
possibly our first light of Sirius C.

This kind of investment in astronomy should give some of us a better
deductive observationology interpretation as to what transpired right
next door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of
what our solar system has to offer. *However, perhaps there’s too much
information about the Sirius star/solar system for the public to
grasp, without causing more faith-based and political harm than good.
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

*~ BG

There’s always more to creating a solar system than meets the naked
eye, because not everything we see is via natural cosmic perfection
(in most every instance it’s a whole lot of chaotic random
happenstance, and in some cases it’s looking rather complex and/or of
somewhat iffy weird physics that’s far from perfection, and only
getting worse as galaxies merge).

Here’s my 4th or 5th revised/updated reply to wizard Paul A (pnals),
as being another one of our resident diehard anti-revisionist, plus
otherwise this effort is for anyone else without an original deductive
thought or a lose cannon to his/her name.

On Apr 7, 11:07 pm, wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:58 pm, BradGuth wrote:

You do realize that Sirius A is a fairly new star, and that Sirius B
could be something older than our sun.

************

Well, this statement is nonsense. Sirius A & B are a physical pair,
they orbit each other, and this means that in all probability they
were born at about the same time. This system is approximately
200-300 million years old, which is very young in astronomical terms,
and much younger than our sun, which is about 5 billion years old.

Interestingly, Sirius B was once the larger and probably brighter of
the two, but this meant that it evolved faster and today has already
proceeded to the white dwarf stage, whereas Sirius A is still in the
prime of its life. Eventually it, too, will become a white dwarf and
the system will be perhaps something like this one;

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18718111

So, you're another one of the ultra singular BB creation and forever
expansion purest at heart, that which doesn't believe there's ever
anything rogue going on, no such cosmic mergers or encounters of any
importance taking place, and otherwise seeing nothing of significant
cosmic interactions of any other kind taking place, and the Great
Attractor plus a good number of colliding galaxies and of those about
to merge simply do not exist. Well, aren't you special, especially
since our Milky Way is likely comprised of at least two galaxies as
is, and at least an outer portion of our galaxy is about to merge and
thereby interact with a good part of the Andromeda galaxy. (gee whiz,
what could possibly go wrong?)


There is nothing special about the Sirius system, there are thousands
and thousands of others out there just like it.

Except those “others out there” of any significant mass and complexity
were not being suddenly created as situated right next door if not on
top of an existing solar system like ours.


Sure, rogue events might happen here and there, but these would be
mostly in globular clusters where such chance encounters would be more
likely to occur.
\Paul A

I’ve always agreed and having frequently argued that binary and even
trinary star systems are pretty much the cosmic norm. However, we
have to realize what you are indirectly saying is that a truly
impressive multi thousand cubic light year expanse of highly dynamic
and thus a hugely volumetric zone of sufficient cosmic energy
saturated gas, such as having existed as of merely 300 million some
odd recent years ago, of mostly hydrogen and otherwise helium and a
few other molecular elements, that was sufficiently star creation
worthy and situated right next door and/or on top of our preexisting
solar system, whereas instead of such gas being gathered up by our
nearby and well formulated tidal radius of more than sufficient
gravity influence exceeding light years, whereas having instead
independently formulated itself into a nifty pair of truly massive
stars (Sirius B of 9 solar masses and Sirius A of 3 solar masses,
plus having created at least a third significant other body of .06
solar mass as Sirius C).

Did I manage to get that interpretation about right?

Considering everything about our universe and local galaxy had to have
been more compact and otherwise closer to one another as of 300
million years ago, we're talking about a sufficient volumetric kind of
cosmic gaseous cloud of roughly 12 solar masses (assuming 100%
combining efficiency), as happening right next door if not damn near
on top of and/or easily including us, and it just doesn't add up as to
why that nearby amount of such electric and perhaps magnetic charged
hydrogen wasn't the least bit attracted to our pre-existing solar
system mass of 2e30 kg. I mean to ask, what the hell was wrong with
all of that available hydrogen, helium and the assortment of other
elements, as why exactly didn’t we get our fair share if we were
always here first?

In order to muster up 25e30 kg, that’s only 330 cubic light years of
1e-18 bar molecular hydrogen that’s supposedly worth 0.0899e-18 kg/m3,
though actually it’s of less cosmic density because of such gas being
hot as hell and continually tidal force pulled apart or simply
diverted by the surrounding gravity influence of other nearby stars
(such as our sun), so let us make it worthy of at least 3300 ly3, and
that’s only a gaseous populated sphere of 18.5 light years diameter at
100% stellar formation efficiency, and since we can safely say this
star creating process is never that good, so perhaps a cloud of 33,000
ly3 would become a viable collective gravitational collapse worthy
sphere of perhaps 40 ly diameter is more like it.

Now we get to contemplate the “Jeans Mass” for accommodating a
sufficient “triggered star formation” is suggesting much greater mass
ratios of at least 1000:1 64,000:1 might be required for feeding the
gravitational accretion collapse process, of which easily puts our
solar system smack within the central realm of whatever culmination of
cosmic matter and formulating events that created Sirius ABC, making
our 4+ billions of years older solar system very much involved within
that same stellar birthing era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation
Were we actually situated that close to such a complex and absolutely
vibrant stellar birth as of not more than 300 million years ago, plus
most recently having Sirius B going red-supergiant and then slow nova
postal on us, and yet somehow we remained unaffected? (Paul and
others, are you joking?)

Perhaps if something of initial mass were to arrive and/or merge into
a smaller but sufficient molecular cloud of mostly hydrogen and helium
that would have still included our nearby solar system, such as a
brown dwarf of 10~100 Mj, or possibly a pair of small matter/
antimatter black hole could have been the stellar seed, but perhaps
that kind of reverse-nova or anti-nova process should also have
adversely affected our solar system that was likely situated within
that very same molecular cloud.

Within many complex theories to pick from, here’s another one:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v11/i2/dinosaur.asp, supposedly
the final straw of our dinosaur extinction process took place as of
merely 65 million years ago, of which seems to suggest the nearby red-
supergiant and subsequent slow nova of Sirius B (our second sun)
suddenly becoming a white dwarf and having lost its tidal radius grip
on whatever planets, planetoids and moons would have been a most
likely contributor of this otherwise robust biodiversity demise, that
by rights should have otherwise stood the test of time.

It seems highly unlikely that our solar system was unaffected by the
nearby Sirius star/solar system formation and of its subsequent red
supergiant demise in becoming a white dwarf. Clearly no one cosmic
and/or conventional terrestrial impact event caused the great
extinction process, although physical impacts derived from the sudden
demise of the Sirius B solar system (perhaps including that of
obtaining Venus plus an icy Selene as our moon) would certainly have
been trauma worthy of creating thermal extremes and otherwise
geophysically catastrophic towards finishing off most of whatever was
left of such robust life on Earth, that is unless you’d care to review
my icy Selene lithobraking encounter theory.

A 100% BradGuth theory: Prior to the final lithobraking encounter, of
Eden/Earth tilting, Arctic ocean basin creating and quite a few
antipode mountain producing kind of nasty sucker-punch encounter with
an extremely icy Selene, as of roughly 12,900 +/- some odd hundreds of
years ago (according to David Fastovsky), and subsequently as having
become our Selene/moon, whereas chances are there were a few orbital
near miss opportunities for creating some truly impressive tidal
gravity exchanges. By 11,711 BP the new seasonally improved skies
were finally clearing, and the last ever ice-age thaw from which Eden
w/moon is ever going to see was on. (trust me, there are a good number
of public owned and fully public funded supercomputers that could have
run this complex 3D interactive simulation as of a more than decade
ago)

Of course, here in Google/NOVA Groups (Usenet/newsgroups) land of
forever cloaking on behalf of their ultimate Dark Side and mostly
insurmountable naysayism plus mainstream obfuscation, denial and above
all consistently anti-revision mindsets, you’d think there would be a
little what-if elbow room for the give and take of fresh ideas,
especially since so much of astrophysics upon what we thought we knew
has been recently tossed out the proverbial window. Meanwhile, the
most vibrant and interesting star system that’s situated right next to
us remains as oddly taboo/nondisclosure rated, as though our NASA had
once landed on it, or that it’s hiding OBL plus Muslim WMD along with
all of those SEC red-flag reports that were never acted upon, and of
course those 700 large and clearly marked NASA/Apollo boxes of mission
related R&D, as-built documentation, plus loads of critical systems
and science data that seemed to vanish into thin air.

Perhaps there’s simply too much information about the Sirius star/
solar system for the public to grasp without causing more faith-based
harm than good.
http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

BTW; I find that creation, intelligent design and natural evolution
can safely coexist most anywhere, except here on Eden/Earth. Seems
there’s an all or nothing terrestrial mindset that can only insure war
upon war as the one and only basis for settling anything, along with
our environment be damned and otherwise it’s nearly every man, woman,
child, creature and microbe for themselves (at this point it’s mostly
the bugs, microbes and virus spores that are winning, because their
DNA has mutated for the better and they’ll be here and tougher than
ever long after we’re gone), while the human species of evolution
seems only to flat-line or evolve in the wrong direction, especially
for a planet that’s losing far more mass than it gains, and a badly
failing geomagnetic force that’s going south, so to speak

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”



On May 5, 2:28*pm, BradGuth wrote:
“A star is born when a dense patch of gas and dust collapses inside a
cosmic cloud”

For a stellar packed galaxy or even the individual stellar and/or
binary, trinary outcome, and the complex solar system disk of multiple
planets to start off with, it needs at least an nearby kicker or
perhaps two or more black holes merging or combining within a
sufficient cosmic molecular cloud of mostly hydrogen, plus some helium
and assorted other elements that just so happen to exist out of
nowhere. *Otherwise, if there’s nothing of any gravity seeds or nearby
cosmic event(s) taking place, such as a supernova, whereas the natural
cosmic gas collapsing process via molecular gravity that’ll provide
for the primary star plus an accretion disk is going to take a great
deal of time, perhaps at least 10+ millions of years before any such
star materializes, much less stellar companions and/or worthy planets
created out of whatever cosmic molecular cloud remainders didn’t
become part of a given main sequence or greater primary star.

In other words of my limited but open-minded wisdom, no one here or
anywhere else really knows this timeline within any objective
certainty, of what a typical star and the remaining accretion disk
formation of planets requires. *Only a limited number of complex
simulations has ever emerged, and few if any of those efforts are
similar enough to call it other than subjective or highly conditional
science with more complex variables than you and I can imagine.

Under the best of stellar creation/birthing conditions, such as
whatever created the nearby Sirius star/solar system, it should have
taken a cosmic molecular cloud proportion or volumetric area of at
least a thousand fold the mass of whatever stars get made, with
otherwise a few tens of thousands in stellar mass most likely
required. *On average the necessary core molecular cloud density of
1e61e9 particles/cm3 is required in order to initiate and thereby
feed this initial core formation process, that’ll have to gravity suck
as uninterrupted upon that surrounding cosmic molecular medium of
1e41e6/cm3, all the way down to the vacuum of only a few particles/
cm3 or perhaps even less than 1/cm3, as well as the primary star flare-
up having subsequently solar wind blown away most of whatever
remainders that didn’t manage to become any other companion star(s),
planets and moons, as a highly complex process that should also take
at least millions of extra years.

Good thing for us this suddenly rotating disk of a complex stellar
creation process doesn't happen very often, however the original 12
solar massive Sirius star/solar system as having emerged right next
door, if not essentially on top of us, and supposedly having
formulated as of not much further back than 300 MBP from such a
complex molecular cloud of at least 12,000 solar masses, was certainly
one very lucky cosmic environment of nearby stellar creation for us,
that which I still find extremely hard to fathom this kind of
tremendous stellar birthing event supposedly didn’t affect us.
Perhaps this extremely recent creation of the Sirius star/solar system
and of its more recent hydrogen flashover to becoming a white dwarf
was always downwind, so to speak, though I find this analogy as
equally hard to fathom.

Of course, I and most others still have no good objective idea as to
where all of that vast volumetric expanse of mostly molecular
hydrogen, helium and a complex composite of many other elements came
from to start with, much less of where the hell a pair of black holes
or white/clear antimatter holes or that of any other significant
sources of a sufficient gravity seed worthy substance materialized
from in the first place. *In other words, thus far no one knows with
sufficient certainty as to the exact time-line of how a star is born,
or even knowing the demise process of a main sequence star is now
entirely in question, at risk of being far more complex than anyone
can imagine.

*~ BG

On May 5, 12:57*pm, BradGuth wrote:

A “what if” retrospective look at Sirius B in its red supergiant
phase:

I bet you think we’ve seen just about everything Sirius has to offer.
(think again)
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius
*Not that far better instruments don’t exist that could easily
accomplish a thousand fold better and of multiple narrow bandpass
imaging results of Sirius, but what the hell when at least an honest
amateur gives us a no-charge freebie whack, because we got nothing to
lose but our self-rightists pride in all things faith-based and/or
government moderated.

Red giant stars are supposedly many, and yet remain a little hard to
come by, as only a few public images of whatever is within 1000 light
years seem to exist that fit within the bloated size and color
saturated eye-candy profiles that we’ve been taught to accept.
However, the visible spectrum is extremely limited as to what is
otherwise technically accessible from just above and below our
genetically limited and thus inferior visual spectrum. (seems entirely
odd that our human evolution was rather careless in having discarded
so much nifty visual capability, in that other creatures seem to have
a far wider visual spectrum capability that includes some UV and IR
without any need of applied technology)

“Red Giant Star Found to Have Massive Tail” *The obvious bow-wave
proves that even 64 km/s is pushing towards the intergalactic terminal
velocity of such stellar motion for items of this volumetric inflated
red giant size (a mere fraction of what the Sirius B red supergiant
had to have represented)http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Red_G...Have_Massive_T...
*Mira_A of 1.2 M solar mass and several hundred solar radii (UV
colorized as bluish): “A dying star situated 400 light years away from
us exhibits an unusual and massive tail of heated gas that spreads for
more than 13 light years.” *Trekking it’s way through space at a rogue
velocity of 64 km/s none the less.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira
*http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/galex/20070815/a.html

Sirius B could have been looking much like an image of Mira A, except
a whole lot larger (1000 solar radii), as viewed in visible and near
IR, as that of a nearby red supergiant star, nearly half that of the
star Betelgeuse.
*http://xmm.esac.esa.int/external/xmm...osium/173770_m...

Mira A, and lots more composite observationology from FAS
*http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/Sect20/A6.html

There are many possibilities, as for how Sirius B used to function as
a truly massive (9 solar mass) and extremely vibrant star, thereby
extremely hot and fast consuming itself prior to becoming the
impressive red supergiant, creating another planetary nebula phase
before ending as the little white dwarf. *For all we know Sirius B was
even a variable kind of red giant and then perhaps a slow nova
flashover phase prior to finishing off as the compressed white dwarf
we can barely see today.

These following examples are probably similar or perhaps representing
a slightly smaller version of what the Sirius star/solar system looked
like once Sirius B had started turning itself from an impressive red
supergiant into a white dwarf of perhaps 1/8th its original mass,
taking roughly 64~96,000 years for this explosive mass shedding phase
to happen. *A few tens of billions of years later is when such a white
dwarf eventually becomes a black dwarf, kind of black diamond spent
star, in that our universe may or may not be quite old enough to
display such examples.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula
*http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031207.html
*http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index6.html

Betelgeuse has been a massive red supergiant at 20+ fold the mass of
our sun, and likely worth somewhat better than two fold the mass of
the original Sirius B, as Betelgeuse currently having expanded to 1000
solar radii and growing, it'll certainly become a truly impressive
nova whenever it suddenly transforms into a white dwarf that’s nearly
the size of Saturn.

The soon to be renewed and greatly improved Hubble instrument should
accomplish the improved spectrum coverage, along with improved
resolution and several extra DB in dynamic range of imaging most
everything, along with other existing and soon to be ESA deployed
telescopes that are far superior yet, should give us even better
composite examples of what Sirius B used to look like, and quite
possibly our first light of Sirius C.

This kind of investment in astronomy should give some of us a better
deductive observationology interpretation as to what transpired right
next door to us, as well as having unavoidably contributed to some of
what our solar system has to offer. *However, perhaps there’s too much
information about the Sirius star/solar system for the public to
grasp, without causing more faith-based and political harm than good.
*http://www.cosmicastronomy.com/oscillat.htm#sirius

*~ BG