Ares V: Launch Industry Game-Changer

The current way to put a commercial communications satellite in geo-
stationary orbit is to launch it on a large, self-contained rocket
like Ariane, Proton, Zenit, H-2, CZ-3, Atlas V, Delta IV, Falcon 9,
etc. NASA's Ares V could change all that. If Ares V placed a fuel
depot in LEO around the equator, and automated, refuelable space tugs
were used to move payloads between LEO and GEO, then, it would be
possible to use small, inexpensive rockets like Taurus II, Falcon I,
KSLV-1, Shavit, Cyclone, M-V, Vega, etc., to launch comsats bound for
GEO.

This scenario would be a great way for the U.S. to regain dominance of
the launch industry. If successful, the U.S. could undercut the
launch prices of other countries and offer unique LEO to GEO services
to countries that only have small launchers. Any competitor would
have to build a rocket of similar capabilities to Ares V, and this
would likely take 10-20 years.

Ares V has more commercial potential than, perhaps, any rocket NASA
has ever built.

wrote:
:
:Ares V has more commercial potential than, perhaps, any rocket NASA
:has ever built.
:

That rather depends on what it costs to get a kg to LE with it. If
it's not cheaper than Proton, then why wouldn't you build your
'chicken/egg' fuel depot using those?

I call it 'chicken/egg' because nobody is going to design a program
relying on it being there until it is and nobody sane is going to
spend the money to put it there until there's a market for the fuel.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

On Apr 20, 12:10*am, wrote:

Ares V has more commercial potential than, perhaps, any rocket NASA
has ever built.

Incorrect on many levels
A depot doesn't need Ares V to launch it or resupply it.
Anyways, Ares V can't be used for commercial applications.

wrote:
Anyways, Ares V can't be used for commercial applications.


If they can find someone who actually wants to use it, they can probably
sell it to them.
Ares I has been okayed for commercial use:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...98.xml&show=us

Pat

Using Ares V to put a fuel depot in equatorial LEO furthers both
domestic and foreign policy objectives. On the domestic side, it
could put American businesses back at the forefront of the
international launch industry. On the foreign side, offering LEO to
GEO services to countries with small launchers could woo them away
from reliance on Russia or China.

wrote:

:Using Ares V to put a fuel depot in equatorial LEO furthers both
:domestic and foreign policy objectives. On the domestic side, it
:could put American businesses back at the forefront of the
:international launch industry. On the foreign side, offering LEO to
:GEO services to countries with small launchers could woo them away
:from reliance on Russia or China.

Chicken, this is egg....

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

wrote in message
...
Using Ares V to put a fuel depot in equatorial LEO furthers both
domestic and foreign policy objectives. On the domestic side, it
could put American businesses back at the forefront of the
international launch industry. On the foreign side, offering LEO to
GEO services to countries with small launchers could woo them away
from reliance on Russia or China.

You don't need something as big as Ares V to orbit a fuel depot. How big of
a depot do we need? Why can't EELV's orbit a big enough fuel depot by
splitting it up into smaller pieces? There have been proposals to build
such a depot from Centaur derived hardware. Obviously Centaur doesn't need
Ares V.

Jeff
--
"Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson

You don't need something as big as Ares V to orbit a fuel depot. *How big of
a depot do we need? *Why can't EELV's orbit a big enough fuel depot by
splitting it up into smaller pieces? *There have been proposals to build
such a depot from Centaur derived hardware. *Obviously Centaur doesn't need
Ares V.

With a fuel depot, bigger is better. It should be large enough to
service 10 commercial LEO-GEO missions per year, plus the occasional
lunar or planetary mission for U.S. or foreign governments.

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...


wrote:
Anyways, Ares V can't be used for commercial applications.


If they can find someone who actually wants to use it, they can probably
sell it to them.
Ares I has been okayed for commercial use:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...98.xml&show=us


Read that article more closely. *ATK* wants Ares I to be used for
commercial launches. ATK doesn't make the Ares I upper stage and doesn't
have commercial launch facilities for Ares I. Also, NASA is banned from
selling commercial launches and Ares I is NASA's baby. I don't see an easy
way around this.

My guess is that this is yet another sign of desperation on ATK's part to
keep the Ares I program going despite the fact that the entire Ares I
program is starting to smell like a rotting pile of excrement.

It's also starting to look like Ares V will never be developed. No bucks,
no Buck Rogers.

Jeff
--
"Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson

wrote in message
...
Ares V has more commercial potential than, perhaps, any rocket NASA
has ever built.

Ares V, if it is built, will never be a commercial launch vehicle. NASA was
banned from selling commercial launches after the Challenger disaster.
Considering NASA's track record, that ban will never be lifted.

Furthermore, the EELV's both have growth potential, and they aren't a paper
rocket like Ares V. If the market (and/or the US government) demands it,
the EELV provider's will respond with higher lift capability.

Jeff
--
"Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson