...Why ....EARTH....Should be our Top Space Policy

The Vision for Space Exploration Should be Killed!

The lesson of Apollo, according to the Apollo 11 astronauts in
their address to Congress, was that Apollo as a goal had too much
emphasis on pure science and exploration, and not balanced
with the tangible needs of society. Hence the short term support.

ADDRESSES BEFORE THE CONGRESS
FOLLOWING THE MOON LANDING

Lieut. Col. Michael Collins
-----------------------------

"We can ignore neither the wealth of the Indies nor the realities of the
immediate needs of our cities, our citizens, or our civics. We cannot
launch our planetary probes from a springboard of poverty
discrimination or unrest."


Neil A Armstrong
-------------------

"Several weeks ago I enjoyed the warmth of reflection on the
true meaning of the spirit of Apollo."

"I stood in the highlands of this nation, near the Continenta Divide,
introducing to my sons the wonders of nature, and pleasures of
looking for deer and elk."

"In their enthusiasm for the view they frequently stumbled on the
rocky trails. But when they looked only to their footing, they
did not see the elk. To those of you who have advocated
looking high we owe our sincere gratitude, for you have granted
us the opportunity to see some of the grandest views of the
Creator."

To those of you who have been our honest critics, we also thank, for
you have reminded us that we dare not forget to watch the trail.



Col. Edwin W Aldrin
......................................

" I should've been first! (~sorry)

http://usinfo.org/PUBS/LivingDoc_e/moonlanding.htm



Long term support, which is CRUCIAL requires clear and tangible
returns for society. Our /National Science Goal/ should be
oriented around our greatest national needs and problems.
Such as global warming, energy and national defense.

We used to have such a goal, remember Single Stage to Orbit?
Remember reusable spacecraft?

X-33/VentureStar - What really happened

"Then the hammer blow, as despite the project now appearing
to be back on track,"
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2006/...ally-happened/


Remember space ports?
Remember Space Solar Power?


Executive Summary

NASA'S SPACE SOLAR POWER EXPLORATORY RESEARCH
AND TECHNOLOGY (SERT) PROGRAM
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1


Bush killed /it all/ for a military oriented goal.


Strategic Master Plan FY06 and Beyond
AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND

"Military forces have always viewed the "high ground" position
as one of dominance and warfare advantage. With rare
exception, whoever owned the high ground owned the fight.
This capability (Space) is the ultimate high ground
of US military operations."
http://www.wslfweb.org/docs/Final%20...-Signed!v1.pdf


Want to know where the x-33 really went?

The Military Space Plane
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/msp.htm

Pentagon Eyeing Weapons in Space
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0314-01.htm

A small base on the Moon for our missile defense sensors
is all the Vision for Space Exploration is about.
But we can't admit that, we must pretend the Moon will
be a stepping stone for some manned Mars mission
perhaps fifty years into the future. A classic straw man.

Instead of building the true infrastructure we need to exploit space.
Single stage to orbit, space ports etc, we're building another one-shot deal.

At worst the space goal of "To the Moon and Mars", is to devote our
entire National Space Policy so that a select few people can abandon
the earth (colonize) just before all hell breaks loose.

At best our current space goal is a Golden Safari
only for the Ivory Towers.

Unless our space policy is oriented around our greatest global
threats, such as climate change and our energy future, NASA
will deserve to be folded into the military. And we'll
deserve what Nature likely has in store.

Another hundred thousand year ice age, that kills off
just about all life on earth.


Brief introduction to the history of climate
(scroll down to fig 1.5)

"These data should frighten you. Our time looks about up
.....the pattern is unmistakable.
http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBo...f_climate.html



Cheers!


Jonathan

s

On Apr 13, 7:21*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
The Vision for Space Exploration Should be Killed!

The lesson of Apollo, according to the Apollo 11 astronauts in
their address to Congress, was that Apollo as a goal had too much
emphasis on pure science and exploration, and not balanced
with the tangible needs of society. Hence the short term support.

ADDRESSES BEFORE THE CONGRESS
FOLLOWING THE MOON LANDING

Lieut. Col. Michael Collins
-----------------------------

"We can ignore neither the wealth of the Indies nor the realities of the
immediate needs of our cities, our citizens, or our civics. We cannot
launch our planetary probes from a springboard of poverty
discrimination or unrest."

Neil A Armstrong
-------------------

"Several weeks ago I enjoyed the warmth of reflection on the
true meaning of the spirit of Apollo."

"I stood in the highlands of this nation, near the Continenta Divide,
introducing to my sons the wonders of nature, and pleasures of
looking for deer and elk."

"In their enthusiasm for the view they frequently stumbled on the
rocky trails. But when they looked only to their footing, they
did not see the elk. To those of you who have advocated
looking high we owe our sincere gratitude, for you have granted
us the opportunity to see some of the grandest views of the
Creator."

To those of you who have been our honest critics, we also thank, for
you have *reminded us that we dare not forget to watch the trail.

Col. Edwin W Aldrin
.....................................

" I should've been first! * (~sorry)

http://usinfo.org/PUBS/LivingDoc_e/moonlanding.htm

Long term support, which is CRUCIAL requires clear and tangible
returns for society. Our */National Science Goal/ *should be
oriented around our greatest national needs and problems.
Such as global warming, energy and national defense.

We *used to have such a goal, remember Single Stage to Orbit?
Remember reusable spacecraft?

X-33/VentureStar - What really happened

"Then the hammer blow, as despite the project now appearing
to be back on track,"http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2006/01/x-33venturestar-what-really-ha...

Remember space ports?
Remember Space Solar Power?

Executive Summary

NASA'S SPACE SOLAR POWER EXPLORATORY RESEARCH
AND TECHNOLOGY (SERT) PROGRAMhttp://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1

Bush killed /it all/ for a military oriented goal.

Strategic Master Plan FY06 and Beyond
AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND

"Military forces have always viewed the "high ground" position
as one of dominance and warfare advantage. With rare
exception, whoever owned the high ground owned the fight.
This capability (Space) is the ultimate high ground
of *US military operations."http://www.wslfweb.org/docs/Final%2006%20SMP--Signed!v1.pdf

Want to know where the x-33 really went?

The Military Space Planehttp://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/msp.htm

Pentagon Eyeing Weapons in Spacehttp://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0314-01.htm

A small base on the Moon for our missile defense sensors
is all the Vision for Space Exploration is about.
But we can't admit that, we must pretend the Moon will
be a stepping stone for some manned Mars mission
perhaps fifty years into the future. A classic straw man.

Instead of building the true infrastructure we need to exploit space.
Single stage to orbit, space ports etc, we're building another one-shot deal.

At worst the space goal of *"To the Moon and Mars", is to devote our
entire National Space Policy so that a select few people can abandon
the earth (colonize) just before all hell breaks loose.

At best our current space goal is a Golden Safari
only for the Ivory Towers.

Unless our space policy is oriented around our greatest global
threats, such as climate change and our energy future, NASA
will deserve to be folded into the military. And we'll
deserve what Nature likely has in store.

Another hundred thousand year ice age, that kills off
just about all life on earth.

* * * Brief introduction to the history of climate
* * * * * * * (scroll down to fig 1.5)

"These data should frighten you. Our time looks about up
* * * * * *.....the pattern is unmistakable.http://muller.lbl..gov/pages/IceAgeB...f_climate.html

Cheers!

Jonathan


So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?

btw, correct in thinking that we need to rediscover, explore and
conquer Earth before it's too late.

~ BG

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...

So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?


There is no such thing as an objective reality. What we believe is every bit
as important as any fact or truth. Our opinions, policies and actions today
are effected by Apollo as if it did happen. Does it matter if Jesus
really existed? Our reality is shaped by the ..belief...to this day.

By looking to the output side, the effects first, as a primary source of
knowledge, the input side becomes completely irrelevant.
I don't really care if Apollo happened. Just as I don't really care
if Hurricane Katrina was the result of global warming. The
perception matters, it matters that the world now agrees partly
due to Katrina that we should learn how to manage our biosphere.

My hobby is a decidedly output or system behavior based science.
I care about the effects, not the initial conditions. It is the instinctive
fixation on the input or objective side of the equation that is the
source of most ignorance on this planet.

The output side is always complete.
The input side is...always... at best uncertain.

The relationship between the two follows for all complex adaptive systems.

The more organized the whole, the less 'certain' are the components.
The more certain are the components, the less organized is the whole.

As in a living system, which is so complicated, highly interactive and
constantly
changing there is no way to understand the output by a detailed look
at the components. If the components are able to be detailed, the whole
cannot be very organized. Which means objective or fact based sciences
are limited to the least important aspects of reality. This means the most
interesting and important truths of our existence is found where there
can be no objectivity or facts.

Truth, like all complex systems, reside at the edge between the opposite
extremes.

Where objective and subjective methods are equal partners.
Where classical and quantum motion are intractably entangled.
So that no one realm dominates.

This is where fundamental law (Truth) is revealed.
The one place where there can be no facts.

Why do you think they can't come up with a grand unified theory?
It's simple. They try to force together two different things.
Classical motion and quantum motion are two different things
You cannot put an equal sign between them. Any attempt is
a contrivance.

You have to look in nature where the two types of behavior are
....already...one. Then observe the output side of such a system.
Using that knowledge as a basis for universal law.
Then everything becomes easy and simple. Then one science can
apply to all the disciplines....all of them.


Classical and quantum like behavior coexists in a cloud.
Supercritical and subcritical behavior intractably entangled
in a single system. It exists in a photon, and an emotion.
It exists in public opinion and the formation of a star.
It exists in Darwinian evolution as it does market systems.

They ALL exist at the edge between their own opposite possibilities
in behavior. Where both types of motion/behavior coexist
so that one can't tell which is which. Or which dominates.

In reality, the more organized systems have components that
'tremble' while the whole self tunes as if by invisible hands.

In an organized system, the components display quantum like
motion, while the output of the whole is predictable, stable
and simple, like classical motion. That;s how the two different
realms of reality, quantum and classical are related.

Uncertainty is the source of all life, intelligence and our physical
universe.



btw, correct in thinking that we need to rediscover, explore and
conquer Earth before it's too late.


We'll see the Enlightenment with our own eyes.
Everything is about to change.


Jonathan



~ BG

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...

So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?


There is no such thing as an objective reality. What we believe is every
bit
as important as any fact or truth. Our opinions, policies and actions
today
are effected by Apollo as if it did happen. Does it matter if Jesus
really existed? Our reality is shaped by the ..belief...to this day.

No need to question whether the man existed, millions of men have existed
and that is not remarkable. It would matter if the dork could turn water
into
wine, I'd make a nice profit on that stunt if it were economic. Your reality
is
cloud cuckoo land.

"Androcles" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...

So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?


There is no such thing as an objective reality. What we believe is every bit
as important as any fact or truth. Our opinions, policies and actions today
are effected by Apollo as if it did happen. Does it matter if Jesus
really existed? Our reality is shaped by the ..belief...to this day.

No need to question whether the man existed, millions of men have existed
and that is not remarkable. It would matter if the dork could turn water into
wine, I'd make a nice profit on that stunt if it were economic.


When you learn what metaphors are, you'll be competent to read
religious philosophy.



Your reality is
cloud cuckoo land.

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

"Androcles" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...

So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?


There is no such thing as an objective reality. What we believe is every
bit
as important as any fact or truth. Our opinions, policies and actions
today
are effected by Apollo as if it did happen. Does it matter if Jesus
really existed? Our reality is shaped by the ..belief...to this day.

No need to question whether the man existed, millions of men have existed
and that is not remarkable. It would matter if the dork could turn water
into
wine, I'd make a nice profit on that stunt if it were economic.


When you learn what metaphors are, you'll be competent to read
religious philosophy.

Tell you what... I'll offer you a fair deal. I won't preach mathematics
and physics in your church where nobody wants to hear it if you stop
preaching your religious ****in' bull**** in mine.
Now be a good little demented moronic christian, turn the other cheek
so I can kick your stupid arse, take your god on a stick with you and
**** OFF!





Your reality is
cloud cuckoo land.

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...



When you learn what metaphors are, you'll be competent to read
religious philosophy.




so religion IS poetry not fact





----- Original Message -----
From: "marika"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.plays,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: legally wing


Mostly, I didn't think it was completely fair to just be a shmuck without
giving my best effort first. And, I'm not going to be a shmuck, just
lame. I guess I can be lame on down to other people's level. I was
writing hard tonight, when I finally reached a point that I thought,
God, I don't think I'm ever going to make any progress . I've just
never really known anyone quite like other people at work, that somehow
wanted to be a good
friend, but perhaps was incapable, beyond their best efforts, if they even
began to know how.

Things that I wrote as idea, people took literally. And in turn, I didn't
take
literally things they meant that way. I wrote what I intended to be a
last
tonight, realizing at a point, I was just tired, and realizing that
perhaps,
I'm just expecting too much of others, though it's no more now, than I
would
ask any of my friends,
Which sadly means, I doubt I've made particular impact upon the future
interactions with people, or anyone's perception of thoughts as such.

Thoughts?

Thanks?

Good Night!


----- Original Message -----
From: "marika"
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:57 PM
Subject: Another Obama Setback: Gregg withdraws as nominee for
commerce



"Charles Hohenstein" wrote in
message
...

That much is uncertain. What is less clear is to what extent the liberal
media will be able to avoid the duty of reporting on the negative
consequences. If we wind up with Carteresque inflation, they might have
no choice but to lay the blame where it belongs.

There is no question there will be hyperinflation, but it won't be the
product of this bill alone.

We know when the budget started being overextended
We know the multitudinous reasons that the gas prices increased
The prices were nutso during Carter era too.

Gas prices were the floor for the increase in prices in many things from
plastics to food production.
It's clear that food prices have gone up tremendously.
Price control was also hampered by the preposterous gasohol subsidies
that
diverted corn production into fuel. Gasohol subsidies didn't start with
Obama. The damage is done though.
Less corn to feed cows and pigs and chickens - more expensive feed and
more
expensive food.
It doesn't matter that the prices have gone down on gas. The damage is
done.
Add the credit crunch. Farmers can't survive without credit. It's the
difference between being able to buy this much seed or that much stock
this
year and less next year due to credit unavailability. You don't have as
much food in the food supply, law of supply and demand increases the
prices
of food. Look for commodities markets to be the next BUBBLE.

Add to this picture the overprinting of money and overuse of other fed
control tools.
That didn't start during Obama's reign either.

The dam has to break soon.
And when it does, the stimulus will be but a very small piece of the
picture. Sort of like the jimmies on the ice cream.
Pointless window dressing.

mk5000

"Anyway, they don't know you like I do (They don't know)
They'll never know you (Never know)
Anyway, they don't know you like I do (Never know)
They'll never know you"--kanye west

On Apr 14, 7:02*pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"Jonathan" wrote in message

...



"BradGuth" wrote in message
...

So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?

There is no such thing as an objective reality. What we believe is every
bit
as important as any fact or truth. Our opinions, policies and actions
today
are effected by Apollo as if it did happen. Does it matter if Jesus
really existed? Our reality is shaped by the ..belief...to this day.

No need to question whether the man existed, millions of men have existed
and that is not remarkable. It would matter if the dork could turn water
into
wine, I'd make a nice profit on that stunt if it were economic. Your reality
is
cloud cuckoo land.

The Apollo missions were based extensively on a mainstream fundamental
belief that our own government and even that of our mainstream media
doesn't lie to us. Sadly we know better, a whole lot better and we're
a lot poorer and less informed because of it.

~ BG

On Apr 14, 6:49*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...

So, you still believe that we've landed and walked upon our moon?

There is no such thing as an objective reality. What we believe is every bit
as important as any fact or truth. Our opinions, policies and actions today
are effected by Apollo as if it did happen. Does it matter if Jesus
really existed? Our reality is shaped by the ..belief...to this day.

By looking to the output side, the effects first, as a primary source of
knowledge, the input side becomes completely irrelevant.
I don't really care if Apollo happened. Just as I don't really care
if Hurricane Katrina was the result of global warming. The
perception matters, it matters that the world now agrees partly
due to Katrina that we should learn how to manage our biosphere.

My hobby is a decidedly output or system behavior based science.
I care about the effects, not the initial conditions. It is the instinctive
fixation on the input or objective side of the equation that is the
source of most ignorance on this planet.

The output side is always complete.
The input side is...always... at best uncertain.

The relationship between the two follows for all complex adaptive systems..

The more organized the whole, the less 'certain' are the components.
The more certain are the components, the less organized is the whole.

As in a living system, which is so complicated, highly interactive and
constantly
changing there is no way to understand the output by a detailed look
at the components. If the components are able to be detailed, the whole
cannot be very organized. Which means objective or fact based sciences
are limited to the least important aspects of reality. This means the most
interesting and important truths of our existence is found where there
can be no objectivity or facts.

Truth, like all complex systems, reside at the edge between the opposite
extremes.

Where objective and subjective methods are equal partners.
Where classical and quantum motion are intractably entangled.
So that no one realm dominates.

This is where fundamental law (Truth) *is revealed.
The one place where there can be no facts.

Why do you think they can't come up with a grand unified theory?
It's simple. They try to force together two different things.
Classical motion and quantum motion are two different things
You cannot put an equal sign between them. Any attempt is
a contrivance.

You have to look in nature where the two types of behavior are
...already...one. Then observe the output side of such a system.
Using that knowledge as a basis for universal law.
Then everything becomes easy and simple. Then one science can
apply to all the disciplines....all of them.

Classical and quantum like behavior coexists in a cloud.
Supercritical and subcritical behavior intractably entangled
in a single system. It exists in a photon, and an emotion.
It exists in public opinion and the formation of a star.
It exists in Darwinian evolution as it does market systems.

They ALL exist at the edge between their own opposite possibilities
in behavior. Where both types of motion/behavior coexist
so that one can't tell which is which. Or which dominates.

In reality, the more organized systems have components that
'tremble' while the whole self tunes as if by invisible hands.

In an organized system, the components display quantum like
motion, while the output of the whole is predictable, stable
and simple, like classical motion. That;s how the two different
realms of reality, quantum and classical *are related.

Uncertainty is the source of all life, intelligence and our physical
universe.

btw, correct in thinking that we need to rediscover, explore and
conquer Earth before it's too late.

We'll see the Enlightenment with our own eyes.
Everything is about to change.

Jonathan

*~ BG

Whatever substance you're on, please share it with us.

~ BG

BradGuth wrote:


btw, correct in thinking that we need to rediscover, explore and
conquer Earth before it's too late.

Yeah, ..could begin by recognising it's spinning, eh?
http://users.indigo.net.au/don



~ BG