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In a thread entitled "French's Primordial Study", Ned provided a reference
for 'current data' that is 'more definitive' than the French study that failed to support Ned's position on primordial isotope generation. http://www.google.com/groups?selm=vk....supernews.com However, at the time I was swamped, and had no time to divert from the main issue. The reference faded from my mind with time. I've since run across French again, and it's now time to address Ned's claims about his reference. {snip discussion of French paper never addressed by Ned Wright} Claim made by Ned Wright: =========================== "The current data is much more definitive. For example, see Figure 4 of Schramm and Turner, http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9706069." "One dataset gives Y_p = 0.232+/-0.003(stat)+/-0.005(sys); while another gives Y_p = 0.243+/-0.003(stat). The systematic errors affect the scaling of Y_p but not the level at which the zero-intercept model is rejected. With this data the helium proportional to oxygen model is rejected by more than 80 standard deviations." =========================== The quote from S&T is: "There have been two recent determinations of the primeval abundance based upon the He/H ratio measured in regions of hot, ionized gas (HII regions) found in metal-poor, dwarf emission-line galaxies. Using one sample and extrapolating to zero metallicity, Olive and Steigman [33] infer YP = 0.232 +- 0.003 (stat) +- 0.005 (sys); using a new sample of objects Izotov et al [34] infer YP = 0.243 +- 0.003 (stat). Both data sets are shown in Fig. 4. In brief, the current situation is ambiguous, both as to the primeval 4He abundance and as to the consistency of the big-bang prediction." I got a good laugh out of the combination of the title: "Big Bang Nucleosynthesis Enters the Precision Era" and Figure 4. Figure 4 is described as follows: "Helium-4 abundance vs. oxygen abundance in metal-poor, dwarf emission-line galaxies. Right panel (triangles) is the sample analyzed by Olive and Steigman [33]; left panel (circles) is the new sample of Izotov et al [34]." Both figures are pure shotgun scatter measurements, where every uncertainty bar dwarfs the total range of the data. The data is more scattered than similar data (taken 15 years earlier) from French or Peimbert and Torres-Peimbert (French's references). Olive and Steigman's data shows no obvious trend (hovering between .24 and .26 for all values of metallicity), while Izotov et al shows a trend down to ..22 for lower metallicities. [33] K.A. Olive and G. Steigman, Astrophys. J. (Suppl.), (1995). [34] Y. Izotov, T.X. Thuan, and V.A. Lipovetsky, Astrophys. J. Suppl. 108, 1 (1997). The S&T paper actually is a poor source for experimental primordial He values. The actual sources of the data are Olive and Steigman and Izotov et al. Of these two sets of carefully-selected data, S&T have this to say: "Turning to the data themselves; the two samples are in general agreement, except for the downturn at the lowest metallicities which is seen in the data analyzed by Olive and Steigman. (Skillman has recently also expressed concern about the use of the lowest metallicity object, IZw18 [38].)" Izotov states: "The galaxy I Zw 18 ... 0930+554 is of special interest, since it is the most metal-deficient BCG known." But despite this importance, Izotov excludes it: "We find that the most metal-deficient BCG known, IZw 18, cannot be used for this purpose because of its abnormally low He I line intensities." In other words, efforts are made to exclude discrepant low-range data. The results are in 'general agreement' only because the error bars swamp the data. I may as well look at the sources of the data in S&T, since S&T is a primarily theoretical paper....... On the paper of Izotov et al, 1997 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Only one galaxy is shared between the French study and Izotov (I Zw 18 or 0930+554). French finds an He value of .052 (about 16%). Interestingly, the only galaxy shared is is the lowest He value of the 14 galaxies plotted on French's figure 6. (Izotov also excludes the other low-metallicity galxies used in French.) Both French and Izotov provide oxygen values for this galaxy. Izotov in Table 4 provides 7.22 +- .01*, or a chemical abundance of 1.7E-5 (with a 5% error). French provides 1.8E-5 chemical abundance (with a 10% error). So French and Izotov agree on oxygen (the primary heavy element marker). This is not surprising -- as Izotov is using the same methodology used by French, 15 years earlier. Thus, we cannot simply ignore the prior French values, simply because they are older. *Log N(x) with H == 12.00 Isotov notes that he has thrown out some data when calculating his He results: "Our sample contains a large number of low-metallicity galaxies with spectra obtained and reduced in a homoge- neous way. We combine the data in the present paper with the data in to improve statistics and increase the Paper I range of oxygen and nitrogen abundances for regression fitting to determine the primordial helium abundance. However, we have not included 10 H II regions from the present sample, using the following rejection criteria :" So, Isotov is going to throw away data to 'improve statistics.' Classic data selection. But let's see if there's any real rationale (i.e. errors in the data). "1. The H II region is faint and its spectrum is too noisy for helium abundance determination. Using this criterion, we rejected the galaxies 0749+568, 0749+582, 0907+543, 0943+561A, and 1116+583B." Well, faint and noisy signals are valid reasons -- so long as the criteria are determined before He values are calculated. However, if it is done to arbitrarily 'improve' the chi-squared result (as Izotov admits), then this is a textbook case of what Babbage calls 'clipping' the data. And looking at Table 4 clearly shows that these regions have lower statistical error from noise than other regions that Isotove kept. "2. There is a large spread in the individual determinations of the ionic helium abundance from the He I 4471, 5876, and 6678 lines as compared to the mean value (Table 5). A galaxy is rejected when the deviation of an individual determination is more than 20% from the mean value. Using this criterion, we removed 1358+576, 1441+294, and 1535+554." Variations from the mean are not valid reasons to exclude data. This is another textbook case of 'clipping' data to arbitrarily improve the apparent statistics. "3. The galaxy shows strong Balmer underlying absorption features and weak He I emission lines, which makes the measurements of He I line intensities difficult. Using this criterion, we rejected 1319+579B." As in criterion 1, this may be valid so long as the criteria are determined before He values are calculated. However, the error bars for this region for both He and heavy element abundances is below that of galaxy data which Izotov kept. Hence Izotov is simply 'clipping' another data point to 'improve' his statistics. But now -- after all the quasi-valid 'clipping' criteria have been performed, we come to that special case. The one that would disprove the BBN -- if valid. Izotov creates a special section just to rationalize removing I Zw 18 from the data pool: "Finally, we have rejected the BCG I Zw 18. This galaxy has the lowest oxygen abundance known and has played an important role in the past for the (Z /50) determination of the primordial helium abundance. However, the He I line intensities in this galaxy (Table 3) are unusually low as compared to other very metal-deficient BCGs ... The derived helium mass fraction is only Y=0.19 in the case of Brocklehurst's (1972) and Y=0.21 in the case of emissivities Smits's (1996) emissivities (Table 5), significantly lower than the values derived for other low-metallicity galaxies. ...." And -- one might add -- significantly below the estimates of French of 0.16 -- which French declares an upper bound. A VERY long section lists various authors have studied the problem with care, observation and theory. Yet I Zw 18 refuses to respond to all efforts. So Izotov concludes: "But these assumptions** are very uncertain, and as long as they are not well understood, I Zw 18 CANNOT BE USED FOR THE DETERMINATION OF THE PRIMORDIAL HELIUM ABUNDANCE." (emphasis in original) ** The various theoretical attempts to explain away an observation at odds with the BBN. One of the primary reasons for low-mettalicity galaxies is that the lower the metallicity, the higher the quality of the data -- at least according to O&S. Thus, deleting the best-studied, but lowest metallicity galaxy is completely unjustifiable. After 'clipping' 10 'outlier' observations, this leaves Izotov with only 19 remaining observations. (Izotov has thrown out over a third of his data.) To make up for this wholesale emasculation of the data set, he brings in 8 results from other papers (without discussing the details). Babbage calls this 'padding' the data. It's not quite drylabbing, but Isotov has had a free hand in selecting only those data points that further 'improve' his statistics. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = On the paper of Olive and Steigman et al, 1995 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Unlike Isotov, O&S do not provide any actual data for direct evaluation. Olive and Steigman do not obtain their own data. They borrow data from "Skillman, et al (1994)"***, claiming 49 H II regions, including "11 new, very metal-poor H II regions." However, O&S's Figures 5 & 6 (the source of Figure 4 in T&S) only include 41 data points. This is because O&S have also 'clipped' the data -- removing various 'outliers' in order to 'improve' the statistics. An interesting exception is the case of the eight 'N/O vs O/H outliers'. O&S have kept these 'outliers,' because they are closer to the desired He/H vs. O/H (and N/H) fit. And while O&S considers this to be a bit discrepant from theory, since the inclusion of these 'problem' observations improve the statistical fit, O&S keeps them. *** The reference is "Elemental Abundances from Extremely Low Metallicity H II Regions: A Higher Primordial He Abundance?", Skillman et al, 1994, ADS, (1994dwga.work..519S). Neither abstract nor paper is available on ADS. Nor is it found on an arxiv search. Nor was the abstract or content of a similar paper found on ADS on the same subject. (Terlevich, E.; Skillman, E. D.; Terlevich, R, "Primordial Helium from Extremely Metal-Poor Galaxies", The Light Element Abundances, Proceedings of an ESO/EIPC Workshop). Possibly, this paper was not actually published. If so, there is no documentation backing up Olive and Steigman's paper. {Boy this is such an 'improvement' over French. ![]() O&S simply ignores French's study -- though it lists several other studies going all the way back to Peimbert and Torres-Peimbert (upon which French also based his work). This is interesting. Despite the importance that Ned Wright attached to the French study, both his 'modern' references avoid French like the plague.... The reason for this is straightforward when you read on: "Virtually all analyses agree that 0.22 = Yp = 0.24. The problems -- and disagreements -- arise from the quest for the third significant figure in Yp." French -- of course -- is one of those irritating results that necessitated O&S to use the word 'virtually'. This is just another form of 'clipping' of unwanted observations. The attitude is obvious, because if there is disagreement about the second significant figure (a range of .22 to ..24), then O&S's statement is transparently specious on disagreements of the 'third significant figure.' = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = One of the subjects discussed in French (and P&TP) -- but ignored in S&T, Izotov and Olive and Steigman -- is that the He concentration data is an *upper bound*. This is a significant oversight in S&T. (French observed young galaxies with He abundances as low as 11%, and provided reasoning that these abundances were 'real'. Even though they are far below the theoretical Big Bang 'primordial' values.) It is quite clear that the institutional pressure to conform the BBN model is overwhelming. French began the process by simply avoiding his own data when calculating the metallicity slope (back-calculating from the BBN theory). The three later authors (S&T, O&S and Izotov) are more devious -- simply clipping discrepant data, and padding the dataset when clipping alone won't provide sufficient adjustment. So, it seems that Ned's claims about 'more definitive' recent work is even more at sea than his claims about French. Courtesy copy provided to Ned Wright. -- greywolf42 ubi dubium ibi libertas {remove planet for return e-mail} |
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French's Primordial Study | greywolf42 | Astronomy Misc | 8 | September 16th 03 07:53 PM |