Satellites Collide in First-Ever Mid-Space Crash

See:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2009/0...ites-coll.html

and

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/

wrote:

See:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2009/0...ites-coll.html

and

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/

Humans polluting space.

Imagine that.

The orbits of the Iridium satellites are rather predictable aren't
they? Wouldn't the orbit of the Cosmos 2251 be as well? That being
the case, does that imply that someone simply wasn't crunching the
numbers on the orbits? Otherwise, it would seem that this collision
would have been rather predictable.

http://www.space.com/news/090211-sat...collision.html

rick jones
--
web2.0 n, the dot.com reunion tour...
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

Rick Jones wrote:
The orbits of the Iridium satellites are rather predictable aren't
they? Wouldn't the orbit of the Cosmos 2251 be as well? That being
the case, does that imply that someone simply wasn't crunching the
numbers on the orbits? Otherwise, it would seem that this collision
would have been rather predictable.

My guess is there isn't much in place to predict this kind of thing.

Iridium should have been watching, but it's a shoe string operation.

http://www.space.com/news/090211-sat...collision.html

Collision prediction is an area where great advances can be made, and
detection and tracking are skills that now will be absolutely necessary.

The party is over. Trust me.

rick jones

wrote:
See:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2009/0...ites-coll.html

and

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/


There's info on the Russia one involved in the collision he
http://space.skyrocket.de/index_fram...t/strela-1.htm
It's a Strela 3 class satellite.
Mass is 220-225 kilograms (depending on the source).
With the Iridium having a mass of 689 kilograms:
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/iridium.htm
....we now have near a metric ton of debris flying around up there.

Pat

Rick Jones wrote:
The orbits of the Iridium satellites are rather predictable aren't
they? Wouldn't the orbit of the Cosmos 2251 be as well? That being
the case, does that imply that someone simply wasn't crunching the
numbers on the orbits? Otherwise, it would seem that this collision
would have been rather predictable.

http://www.space.com/news/090211-sat...collision.html

rick jones


The Cosmos 2251 was dead, so that might have made it harder to track as
to its orbit.
(Try to keep track of this mess as to possible collisions 24/7:
http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncateg...eehive5_h1.jpg )
Even Space Command can't track two orbits down to a matter of a few feet
to predict if two orbiting objects will collide with any certainty.
They may of noticed there was a orbital conflict between the two
satellite's paths, but predicting a collision and getting it wrong would
be embarrassing.
The Russian satellite was a Strela 2M military comsat type. I haven't
been able to get a specific mass on it, but the Strela 3 looks very
similar to it, and its mass is 220 kilograms.
Combined with the 689 kg mass of the Iridium we now right around a ton
of debris flying around up there.

Pat

On Feb 11, 6:21*pm, kT wrote:
Rick Jones wrote:
The orbits of the Iridium satellites are rather predictable aren't
they? *Wouldn't the orbit of the Cosmos 2251 be as well? *That being
the case, does that imply that someone simply wasn't crunching the
numbers on the orbits? *Otherwise, it would seem that this collision
would have been rather predictable.

My guess is there isn't much in place to predict this kind of thing.

Iridium should have been watching, but it's a shoe string operation.

http://www.space.com/news/090211-sat...collision.html

Collision prediction is an area where great advances can be made, and
detection and tracking are skills that now will be absolutely necessary.

The party is over. Trust me.

rick jones

Iridium 33 (560 kg) + Cosmos 2251 (900 kg) = I told you so.

This encounter could easily cascade, and if it does our future of
reliable satellite placements is at risk, not to mention complex to
lethal consequences for manned missions.

How much tonnage is old/dead or soon w/o fuel?

~ BG

wrote in message
...
See:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2009/0...ites-coll.html

and

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/

Don't forget the Progress/Mir collision.

On Feb 12, 1:51 pm, "Alan Erskine" wrote:
Don't forget the Progress/Mir collision.

However, that followed action specifically designed to bring the 2
objects near each other. This is 2 satellites minding their own
business and not intending to get anywhere near each other (or
incidently trying to keep relative velocity low).

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...


Rick Jones wrote:
The orbits of the Iridium satellites are rather predictable aren't
they? Wouldn't the orbit of the Cosmos 2251 be as well? That being
the case, does that imply that someone simply wasn't crunching the
numbers on the orbits? Otherwise, it would seem that this collision
would have been rather predictable.

http://www.space.com/news/090211-sat...collision.html

rick jones


The Cosmos 2251 was dead, so that might have made it harder to track as to
its orbit.

B.s. The US tracks objects orders of magnitude smaller than Cosmos 2251.
Tracking wasn't the problem here.

(Try to keep track of this mess as to possible collisions 24/7:
http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncateg...eehive5_h1.jpg )
Even Space Command can't track two orbits down to a matter of a few feet
to predict if two orbiting objects will collide with any certainty.

Again, I call b.s. Orbital mechanics is a well known area of
physics/mathematics. Prediction of orbits can be done with great precision.
The problem of predicting intersections of those orbits is definately a
harder problem, but it's done all the time for ISS. How many times has ISS
had to perform a maneuver to move out of the way of some bit of space
debris?

They may of noticed there was a orbital conflict between the two
satellite's paths, but predicting a collision and getting it wrong would
be embarrassing.

Again, I call b.s. ISS has been moved when predictions have indicated a
"close" approach by debris far smaller than Cosmos 2251.

The Russian satellite was a Strela 2M military comsat type. I haven't been
able to get a specific mass on it, but the Strela 3 looks very similar to
it, and its mass is 220 kilograms.
Combined with the 689 kg mass of the Iridium we now right around a ton of
debris flying around up there.

Reports are at least 600 new pieces of debris.


This was an unprecedented event. I predict heads will roll.

Jeff
--
"Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson