FALSE PREMISE, TRUE CONCLUSION?

Since 1850, the creation of axiomatic (deductive) systems in natural
sciences has been based on the assumption that the combination:

false premise (axiom), true conclusion (theory)

is legitimate. In thermodynamics the assumption is officially adopted
whereas in relativity it is involved in texts suggesting that, even if
Einstein's 1905 light postulate were false, at least general
relativity would remain correct:

http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/chronogeometrie.pdf
Jean-Marc Lévy-Leblond "De la relativité à la chronogéométrie ou: Pour
en finir avec le "second postulat" et autres fossiles": "D'autre part,
nous savons aujourd'hui que l'invariance de la vitesse de la lumière
est une conséquence de la nullité de la masse du photon. Mais,
empiriquement, cette masse, aussi faible soit son actuelle borne
supérieure expérimentale, ne peut et ne pourra jamais être considérée
avec certitude comme rigoureusement nulle. Il se pourrait même que de
futures mesures mettent enévidence une masse infime, mais non-nulle,
du photon ; la lumière alors n'irait plus à la "vitesse de la
lumière", ou, plus précisément, la vitesse de la lumière, désormais
variable, ne s'identifierait plus à la vitesse limite invariante. Les
procedures operationnelles mises en jeu par le "second postulat"
deviendraient caduques ipso facto. La theorie elle-meme en serait-elle
invalidee ? Heureusement, il n'en est rien ; mais, pour s'en assurer,
il convient de la refonder sur des bases plus solides, et d'ailleurs
plus economiques. En verite, le "premier postulat" suffit, a la
condition de l'exploiter a fond."

http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "This is the point of view from wich I intend
to criticize the overemphasized role of the speed of light in the
foundations of the special relativity, and to propose an approach to
these foundations that dispenses with the hypothesis of the invariance
of c....We believe that special relativity at the present time stands
as a universal theory discribing the structure of a common space-time
arena in which all fundamental processes take place....The evidence of
the nonzero mass of the photon would not, as such, shake in any way
the validity of the special relativity. It would, however, nullify all
its derivations which are based on the invariance of the photon
velocity."

http://www.fqxi.org/data/articles/Se...lden_Spike.pdf
"Loop quantum gravity also makes the heretical prediction that the
speed of light depends on its frequency. That prediction violates
special relativity, Einstein's rule that light in a vacuum travels at
a constant speed for all observers..."

Joao Magueijo, PLUS VITE QUE LA LUMIERE, Dunod, 2003, pp. 298-299:
"La racine du mal etait clairement la relativite restreinte. Tous ces
paradoxes resultaient d'effets bien connus comme la contraction des
longueurs, la dilatation du temps, ou E=mc^2, tous des predictions
directes de la relativite restreinte. (...) La consequence en etait
inevitable: pour edifier une theorie coherente de la gravite
quantique, quelle qu'elle soit, nous [Joao Magueijo et Lee Smolin]
devions commencer par abandonner la relativite restreinte. (...) Mais,
comme nous l'avons vu, celle-ci repose sur deux principes
independants. Le premier est la relativite du mouvement, le second la
constance de la vitesse de la lumiere. Une des solutions possibles a
notre probleme pouvait etre d'abandonner la relativite du mouvement.
(...) C'est une possibilite bien sur, mais nous avons choisi
l'alternative evidente: preserver la relativite du mouvement, mais
admettre qu'a de tres hautes energies, la vitesse de la lumiere ne
soit plus constante."

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/smol...n03_print.html
Lee Smolin: "Now, here is the really interesting part: Some of the
effects predicted by the theory appear to be in conflict with one of
the principles of Einstein's special theory of relativity, the theory
that says that the speed of light is a universal constant. It's the
same for all photons, and it is independent of the motion of the
sender or observer. How is this possible, if that theory is itself
based on the principles of relativity? The principle of the constancy
of the speed of light is part of special relativity, but we quantized
Einstein's general theory of relativity.....But there is another
possibility. This is that the principle of relativity is preserved,
but Einstein's special theory of relativity requires modification so
as to allow photons to have a speed that depends on energy. The most
shocking thing I have learned in the last year is that this is a real
possibility. A photon can have an energy-dependent speed without
violating the principle of relativity! This was understood a few years
ago by Amelino Camelia. I got involved in this issue through work I
did with Joao Magueijo, a very talented young cosmologist at Imperial
College, London. During the two years I spent working there, Joao kept
coming to me and bugging me with this problem.....These ideas all
seemed crazy to me, and for a long time I didn't get it. I was sure it
was wrong! But Joao kept bugging me and slowly I realized that they
had a point. We have since written several papers together showing how
Einstein's postulates may be modified to give a new version of special
relativity in which the speed of light can depend on energy."

The problem is that arguments in both thermodynamics and relativity
are of a special kind that makes the combination "false premise, true
conclusion" IMPOSSIBLE. See more in:

http://www.wbabin.net/philos/valev9.pdf

Pentcho Valev

On Dec 18, 12:42*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
[snip]

I wonder what this moron's time budget is for researching relativity
and then ignoring what he found.

On Dec 18, 5:14*am, Eric Gisse wrote:
On Dec 18, 12:42*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
[snip]

I wonder what this moron's time budget is for researching relativity
and then ignoring what he found.

Certainly not as long as the time you spent in undergraduate
school... Eric, school is not for everybody. Perhaps you should
consider other vocations...

On Dec 18, 5:07*am, "Strich.9" wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:14*am, Eric Gisse wrote:

On Dec 18, 12:42*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
[snip]

I wonder what this moron's time budget is for researching relativity
and then ignoring what he found.

Certainly not as long as the time you spent in undergraduate
school... *Eric, school is not for everybody. *Perhaps you should
consider other vocations...

Since he has been ****posting for many years longer than I have been
at university, I'm going to go with "you are an idiot".

On Dec 18, 3:37*pm, Eric Gisse wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:07*am, "Strich.9" wrote:

On Dec 18, 5:14*am, Eric Gisse wrote:

On Dec 18, 12:42*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
[snip]

I wonder what this moron's time budget is for researching relativity
and then ignoring what he found.

Certainly not as long as the time you spent in undergraduate
school... *Eric, school is not for everybody. *Perhaps you should
consider other vocations...

Since he has been ****posting for many years longer than I have been
at university, I'm going to go with "you are an idiot".

Having gone to schools less than the standard times, I don't have any
respect for those who take the normal, or longer time. Nothing
personal Eric, just good judgement.

On Dec 18, 4:00*pm, "Strich.9" wrote:

Having gone to schools less than the standard times, I don't have any
respect for those who take the normal, or longer time. *Nothing
personal Eric, just good judgement.- Hide quoted text -

Stritch, would you care to share with readers the name of the
university in which your study was completed and you earned your
degree in less than "standard time"? Also, did you pay the tuition on
your own, or did someone pay it for you?

It took me 6 years to obtain what is normally a 5-year program from
Drexel, simply because I ran out of money half-way through, and had to
take off a year from my studies and work for a year to earn my last 2-
year's tuition. My graduate degree came from Princeton where it was no
sweat because of a graduate fellowship that required me to teach and
work on particle accelerator design at Forrestal.

So Stritch, befor you begin to knock Eric, whose situation neither of
us really knows, please tell us about your own. The question has two
parts and is quite simple. First, what university did you complete in
less than the "standard times"? Second, who precisely paid your
tuition, fees and other costs?

Be honest!

Harry C.

On Dec 18, 12:00*pm, "Strich.9" wrote:
On Dec 18, 3:37*pm, Eric Gisse wrote:



On Dec 18, 5:07*am, "Strich.9" wrote:

On Dec 18, 5:14*am, Eric Gisse wrote:

On Dec 18, 12:42*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
[snip]

I wonder what this moron's time budget is for researching relativity
and then ignoring what he found.

Certainly not as long as the time you spent in undergraduate
school... *Eric, school is not for everybody. *Perhaps you should
consider other vocations...

Since he has been ****posting for many years longer than I have been
at university, I'm going to go with "you are an idiot".

Having gone to schools less than the standard times, I don't have any
respect for those who take the normal, or longer time. *Nothing
personal Eric, just good judgement.

So you are less educated than the average college graduate? Is that
what you are saying?

On Dec 18, 2:57 pm, " wrote:
On Dec 18, 4:00 pm, "Strich.9" wrote:

Having gone to schools less than the standard times, I don't have any
respect for those who take the normal, or longer time. Nothing
personal Eric, just good judgement.

Stritch, would you care to share with readers the name of the
university in which your study was completed and you earned your
degree in less than "standard time"? Also, did you pay the tuition on
your own, or did someone pay it for you?

Schools don’t matter. It is how you have embraced what you had
learned and applied that education that matters. shrug

It took me 6 years to obtain what is normally a 5-year program from
Drexel, simply because I ran out of money half-way through, and had to
take off a year from my studies and work for a year to earn my last 2-
year's tuition.

I have never heard of that institution. I though Drexel is some
pharmaceutical company. shrug

My graduate degree came from Princeton where it was no
sweat because of a graduate fellowship that required me to teach and
work on particle accelerator design at Forrestal.

The financial crises were caused by the inabilities of these Ivy-
league business school graduates to avoid past mistakes and to apply
sound fundamental judgments. Thus, MIT, Princeton, Pennsylvania,
Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, Harvard, and Yale graduates are
failures. They should not be holding any jobs relating in fixing our
economies. After all, Paulson the mother*cking SOB and graduated from
Dartmouth, Bernanke the mother*cking SOB graduated from Harvard and
MIT, and Greenspan the rabbif*cking as well as mother*cking SOB
graduated from Columbia. After these mother*cking SOBs created all
these mess, I have no faith in believing that they will solve the
problems. After all, these mother*cking SOBs don’t even know the
history of the Great Depression. Those who don’t know the history
will repeat the mistakes made in history. If I were you, I would not
brag about that Princeton connection. shrug

So Stritch, befor you begin to knock Eric, whose situation neither of
us really knows, please tell us about your own. The question has two
parts and is quite simple.

Gisse is a mutli-year super-senior. shrug

Second, who precisely paid your
tuition, fees and other costs?

Did you ask Gisse the same question?

On Dec 18, 10:28 pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Dec 18, 2:57 pm, " wrote:

Stritch, would you care to share with readers the name of the
university in which your study was completed and you earned your
degree in less than "standard time"? Also, did you pay the tuition on
your own, or did someone pay it for you?

Schools don’t matter. It is how you have embraced what you had
learned and applied that education that matters. shrug

It took me 6 years to obtain what is normally a 5-year program from
Drexel, simply because I ran out of money half-way through, and had to
take off a year from my studies and work for a year to earn my last 2-
year's tuition.

I have never heard of that institution. I though Drexel is some
pharmaceutical company. shrug

My graduate degree came from Princeton where it was no
sweat because of a graduate fellowship that required me to teach and
work on particle accelerator design at Forrestal.

The financial crises were caused by the inabilities of these Ivy-
league business school graduates to avoid past mistakes and to apply
sound fundamental judgments. Thus, MIT, Princeton, Pennsylvania,
Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, Harvard, and Yale graduates are
failures. They should not be holding any jobs relating in fixing our
economies. After all, Paulson the mother*cking SOB and graduated from
Dartmouth, Bernanke the mother*cking SOB graduated from Harvard and
MIT, and Greenspan the rabbif*cking as well as mother*cking SOB
graduated from Columbia. After these mother*cking SOBs created all
these mess, I have no faith in believing that they will solve the
problems. After all, these mother*cking SOBs don’t even know the
history of the Great Depression. Those who don’t know the history
will repeat the mistakes made in history. If I were you, I would not
brag about that Princeton connection. shrug

So Stritch, befor you begin to knock Eric, whose situation neither of
us really knows, please tell us about your own. The question has two
parts and is quite simple.

Gisse is a mutli-year super-senior. shrug

Second, who precisely paid your
tuition, fees and other costs?

Did you ask Gisse the same question?

Please allow me to add the following.

Princeton was the institution who accommodated Einstein the nitwit,
the plagiarist, and the liar who actually did not know anything just
like Dono, Gisse, Draper, Andersen, and many others. shrug

It is unbelievable that stupidity runs so freely in these very liberal
arts schools. shrug

I completed a 4 year B.S. degree in Computer Science
at Brigham Young University ( Provo Utah, 1983 ) in 1.67 years
― because I was ****ing poor, despite my full-time job ―
( low-ambition ) trust fund babies aren't rushed like that.

At the time, I had a wife and a new-born.

I was granted permission to take extra hours per tri-semester
because my grades and test scores here high.
Also, I was able to test-out of various courses.