Other than terrestrial water and tidal flex heating

This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres (“green glass spherules”) that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...mg19926644.200
““They concluded the moon's mantle has between 260 and 700 ppm of
water. "This is very surprising, because for 40 years people have
studied lunar rocks and no one found any water," says Saal. "We got
lucky."”

I can accept this mainstream deductive interpretation, because
sufficient geode sequestered remains of moon water shouldn't be all
that unlikely, especially if our Selene/moon had come to us as an icy
proto-moon from the Sirius star/solar system that had lost 4+ solar
mass from its recent red giant phase, or perhaps even from our own icy
Oort cloud (similar to Sedna and our binary Plutos).

-

In addition to however potentially wet or brine worthy the interior of
our Selene/moon could very well be, it’s also the most likely and the
primary factor of global warming Earth, but only as of the last ice-
age this planet w/moon is ever going to see.

What is the Selene/moon tidal flex heating of Earth? (117.68e3 tw.h)

If the likes of Io and most other moons of Jupiter and Saturn are
mainstream science accepted as getting tidal flex heated in addition
to whatever’s the atomic/thorium core reactions taking place, whereas
then it stands to good enough peer replicated reasoning that our
elliptical orbiting Selene/moon with its ongoing average * 2e20 N/sec
(2.04e19 kgf/sec) * of orbital tidal force is unavoidably receiving
from as well as contributing to the internal and surface heating of
our extremely fluid Earth.

Upon this terrestrial Earth, at the surface we seem have these fully
mainstream accepted sorts of basic force to energy conversions to work
with.

1 kgf.m.s = 9.80665 Joules
1 kgf.m.s = 9.295e-8 therm
1 kgf.m.s = .00980665 kj
1 kgf.m.s = 2.72407e-6 kw.h
1 kgf.m.h = 9.80655e-3 kw.h

Of the 2e20 N divided equally between the Earth and our Selene/moon,
if we took 50% of this hourly tidal force as converted into geothermal
energy of kw.h, we’d get 2.04e19 / 2 * 9.80655e-3 = 11.768e16 kw.h
(117.68e15 kw.h or 117.68e6 tw.h).

How about our taking just a highly conservative 0.1% of that, which
gets us all the way down to the dull tidal flexing roar of just
117.68e3 terawatt hours worth of continuous geothermal heating via
tidal flex. Surely our absolutely impressive Selene/moon with its
fairly robust ratio to Earth is worth at least 0.05% of the 2e20 N/
sec, of which offers * 117.68e3 tw.h * in tidal flex heating (aka
global warming and perhaps loads of geophysical flex morphing) seems
likely, as after all, that’s 230 w/m2 (excluding vertical terrain
factors) but otherwise it’s not very much applied energy per cubic
meter of Earth’s volume (1.084e21 m3 [excluding our wet atmosphere])
is worth merely 108.56e-6 w/m3.

To be including the volume of our wet and otherwise polluted
atmosphere that’s also getting tidal flex heated, we get down to
roughly 100 micro watt/m3. This isn’t to say that humanity hasn’t
gone out of its way in order to having measurably contributed to our
global warming.

I know this seems like a lot of ongoing energy, but then I can't say
with any certainty if it's equally divided between our Selene/moon and
Earth or somehow getting nullified. Perhaps nearly 100% of that tidal
flex is actually going directly into Earth, minus whatever is taken up
by our sun. The older than Earth Selene/moon itself seems rather
thick crusted and by thus kind of tidal morph/flex inert, so that
perhaps not much of this mutual tidal radius force is likely morphing
or flexing all that much of Selene's innards, and especially so
because there's no Selene spin in relationship to Earth for whatever
tidal flex to interact with, though just having a little elliptical
orbit consideration might be enough to keep Selene’s low density
interior from ever turning solid.

If you perceive or explicitly insist that I’ve incorrectly calculated
any this, as having over/under shot the mark, then simply give this
your best swag and offer your improved or more correct rendition of
this unavoidable geothermal heating via tidal flexing.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres (“green glass spherules”) that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...mg19926644.200

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass. The Earth has no tidal effect on the
Moon, since its rotational period coincides with its orbital period. No
flexing there, Guthball

On Jul 18, 1:52*am, BradGuth wrote lots of dense
things:
I'm just curious. When the tide goes out, do you get a headache?

"Hagar" wrote in message
...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres ("green glass spherules") that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...mg19926644.200

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

On Jul 18, 3:10*pm, "Landy" wrote:

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. *The effect isn't big, but it
exists. *

There are also atmospheric tides that are analogous to ocean tides,
and run on the lunar cycle. But these are swamped out by larger-
amplitude atmosphereic tides that are on the 24 hour heating/cooling
cycle.

Landy wrote:
"Hagar" wrote in message
...

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass.


Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

It does happen on the moon also. It isn't exactly the same side of the
moon which is facing Earth because of lunar libration. Of course if you
don't have full rotation but only small librations your tides will be small.
Also the radius of the moon is about 3.7 times smaller than Earths radius
and this leads to yet smaller tides. But Earth's mass being about 81 times
the mass of the moon, this increases the tidal effect on the moon. When
you take all this into account what you get is very small tides on the
moon, but they do exist.


Alain Fournier

"Alain Fournier" wrote in message
...
Landy wrote:
"Hagar" wrote in message
...

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It
is far too puny to affect the landmass.


Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists. This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide

It does happen on the moon also. It isn't exactly the same side of the
moon which is facing Earth because of lunar libration. Of course if you
don't have full rotation but only small librations your tides will be
small.
Also the radius of the moon is about 3.7 times smaller than Earths radius
and this leads to yet smaller tides. But Earth's mass being about 81 times
the mass of the moon, this increases the tidal effect on the moon. When
you take all this into account what you get is very small tides on the
moon, but they do exist.


Good point. Is there a perigee/apogee effect as well I wonder? (similar to
the effect on the Jovian moons)
cheers
Bill

On Jul 18, 10:39 am, "Hagar" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres (�green glass spherules�) that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...w-the-moon-rev...

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass. The Earth has no tidal effect on the
Moon, since its rotational period coincides with its orbital period. No
flexing there, Guthball

Hagar, Hagar, Hagar. There's more to tidal flexology and crust
morphology than oceans. Earth is at least 98.5% fluid to the likes of
tidal flexing everything from our atmosphere to the very core of
Earth. Of what's essentially solid about Earth is kept in motion due
to solar and moon tidal flex.

I agree that Earth's tidal flex on behalf of morphing our Selene/moon
is limited as to the elliptical lunar orbit factor and of the very
gradual interactions with our sun and Earth, and otherwise not of
anything all that significant from Earth's spin.

Obviously the moon itself isn't causing tidal flex upon its interior
due to spin, because it has no spin with relation to Earth, and only a
very slow rate of spin in relation to our sun.

So, perhaps that leaves the vast bulk of the 2e20 N/sec of tidal force
as primarily affecting Earth. The question remains; how much of that
2e20 N/sec becomes tidal flex worthy of terrestrial geothermal or that
of global warming energy?

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

In article ,
"Landy" wrote:

"Hagar" wrote in message
...

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
This topic is entirely Selene/moon related, such as the supposed
volcanic or lava fused as little and apparently not so little basalt
and silica combined spheres ("green glass spherules") that researchers
claim to be of their NASA/Apollo moon rock samples, that which
supposedly their spendy (public owned) mass spectrometers as having
only recently detected as containing 260,000 ppb of good old h2o.
(that's not necessarily per given mass of common moon bedrock, but of
the given mass of each little portion of rock containing such lava
formulated geodes as solid glass spheres that could have been
contributed and/or contaminated by most any icy meteor encounter)

Water Discovered in Moon Rock Samples / By Jeremy Hsu of Space.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380148,00.html#

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...oon-reveals-it
s-water.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news3_head_mg19926644.200

snip Guthball drivel

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass.

Perhaps you should look up earth tides. The effect isn't big, but it
exists.

"It exists" is merely an inconsequential little truth. Perhaps you could
calculate just how much heating it causes. You gave us a figure a while
back about the rate at which the Earth-moon dynamic system loses energy
to heat. It should be pretty straightforward to apply that to a ballpark
estimate of the Earth's specific heat (I'll even grant you the leeway to
apply the heat to the rocky parts of the Earth rather than the oceans)
and derive a rate of heating. How many K per million years does this
work out to?

Once you've done that calculation, you can try it with just the Earth's
oceans as the repository of "all that" energy. That should be pretty
easy too. 3/4 of the Earth's surface is water, the water is a depth, on
average of a few kilometers, and the specific heat of water is 1.

How many K per million years does this work out to?

You'll see why it's important to apply numbers to the claims you make.
just adjectives aren't enough.

This doesn't occur on the moon of course, for the reasons you
correctly stated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide





--
Timberwoof me at timberwoof dot com http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

On Jul 18, 11:15 am, oldcoot wrote:
On Jul 18, 10:39 am, "Hagar" wrote:

The tidal flexing, as you call it, only affects the Earth's oceans. It is
far too puny to affect the landmass. The Earth has no tidal effect on the
Moon, since its rotational period coincides with its orbital period. No
flexing there...

The large scale flexing of which you speak did indeed stop when the
pair became tidally locked. But there's still gotta be some low-level
seismic noise from libration, interaction with the sun's gravity etc.
A Google under 'moonquakes' would probably turn up some info.

BTW, there are what's called 'land tides' on Earth, but they're of
much lower amplitude than ocean tides.

That's another good analogy way of putting it, as having "land tides".

Land tides of +/- ?? cm.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth