Moon is less hot by earthshine, says Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
om...
"Is the moon leaving, or are we shrinking"

Whatever you do, don't ask the likes of David Helfand, as you might be
unpleasantly surprised at his response.

I believe this supposed recession rate from Earth (cm/yr) of 3.8 is
rather insignificant, at least until we calculate upon what that
represents, into the amount of added speed and/or thrust needed for
the task.

Brad, the mechanisms for the lunar recession have been well understood for
decades. In a nutshell, tides cause friction between the oceans and the
ocean floors, which transfers energy from the solid part of the earth to the
oceans. One of the effects of this friction is that the tidal bulge is
off-center, and is located "eastward" of the moon. (So the high tide
actually occurs when the moon is west of overhead.) The result of the tidal
bulge being off center is that there is a torgue effect placed on the moon,
and this in turn transfers energy from the earth to the moon. The earth's
spin rate slows, the moon is speeded in its orbit and therefor moves further
away from the earth. (This transfer of energy is essentially a transfer of
angular momentum, which is a conserved quantity.) The historical (over
geological eras) rate of recession has varied due to varying amounts of
tidal friction due to shallower or deeper oceans, and the positions of the
continents.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html has a nice discussion of the
whole topic.

Ami Silberman wrote:

Brad, the mechanisms for the lunar recession have been well understood for
decades. In a nutshell,


You have started this disscusion from exactly the right place; now
explain to him how those bottles of dew aren't going to lift him into
the air.

Cyrano De Flannerac (nosing in)

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message ...
"Brad Guth" wrote in message
om...
"Is the moon leaving, or are we shrinking"

Whatever you do, don't ask the likes of David Helfand, as you might be
unpleasantly surprised at his response.

I believe this supposed recession rate from Earth (cm/yr) of 3.8 is
rather insignificant, at least until we calculate upon what that
represents, into the amount of added speed and/or thrust needed for
the task.

Brad, the mechanisms for the lunar recession have been well understood for
decades. In a nutshell, tides cause friction between the oceans and the
ocean floors, which transfers energy from the solid part of the earth to the
oceans. One of the effects of this friction is that the tidal bulge is
off-center, and is located "eastward" of the moon. (So the high tide
actually occurs when the moon is west of overhead.) The result of the tidal
bulge being off center is that there is a torgue effect placed on the moon,
and this in turn transfers energy from the earth to the moon. The earth's
spin rate slows, the moon is speeded in its orbit and therefor moves further
away from the earth. (This transfer of energy is essentially a transfer of
angular momentum, which is a conserved quantity.) The historical (over
geological eras) rate of recession has varied due to varying amounts of
tidal friction due to shallower or deeper oceans, and the positions of the
continents.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html has a nice discussion of the
whole topic.

Thanks so much, as what you've explained is certainly a whole lot more
believable than all the other flak I've received.

I'll do some further research and see if I can discover upon the
actual amount of said recession energy, in relationship to what a
dipole tether arrangement could possibly extract.

Being that the LSE-CM/ISS offers an unlimited opportunity for such a
tether dipole, this is where I believe there's a great deal of energy
to being had, subsequently stored within those counter-rotating
flywheels.

BTW; does this lunar recession argument represent that Earth is moving
away from the sun?

Or that any other moons are moving away from their planets?

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-se-flywheels.htm

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:59:55 -0800, Brad Guth wrote:

BTW; does this lunar recession argument represent that Earth is moving
away from the sun?

You really didn't understand a single word Ami wrote, did you?

Or that any other moons are moving away from their planets?

Not a single word...

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

Chuck Stewart wrote in message abs.edu...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:59:55 -0800, Brad Guth wrote:

BTW; does this lunar recession argument represent that Earth is moving
away from the sun?

You really didn't understand a single word Ami wrote, did you?

Or that any other moons are moving away from their planets?

Not a single word...

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA

Perhaps you're absolutely right, just like Jay Windley seems to never
get my point.

Here's a little feedback from: Jay Windley )
"High-energy cosmic rays do not come from the sun. They come from
outside the solar system, and our sun is the primary defense against
them. The particles released by the sun itself are of considerably
lower energy and thus their secondary effects in the ambient are
minimal."

Fortunately, I never specified upon any specific "high-energy cosmic
rays", just pointing out that our sun is certainly capable of tossing
out its fair share of far worse things than visible photons plus IR
worth of BTUs and of those nasty UVs. Obviously a supernova is worth a
thousand fold in terms of being nasty, thereby from the far off
generated galactic influx must offer a measurable degree of such, and
of the secondary radiation given off by all that infamous clumping
lunar dirt should become a fairly darn good indicator.

The assertions or premise offered by Jay Windley, that of not only
lacking an atmosphere but also without a Van Allen buffer zone is not
such a bad thing if you're out and about on the lunar surface, seems
somewhat risky if not downright lethal. I might have come into that
understanding if we're referring to an earthshine illuminated lunar
surface, but not so far if that's of any fully solar illuminated
environment while wearing a moon suit because, we're not talking about
avoiding a 270 nm UV sun burn.

Sorry about all my reverse engineering logic, or lack thereof. I was
simply trying to establish upon the amount of solar radiation that
becomes hard X-Ray class.

"High-energy cosmic rays do not come from the sun"

Do we suppose that happens to include the likes of the last couple of
weeks of solar flak?

Seems there should be some specific knowledge (excluding Apollo) of
what's what pertaining to the solar illuminated surface as opposed to
the absolute lunar nighttime environment and, of something specific
pertaining to whatever earthshine contributes.

This is somewhat like getting a grasp upon the applied energy (thrust)
involved in accelerating something the size and mass of the moon.

As the feedback provided from: Ami Silberman )

"The mechanisms for the lunar recession have been well understood for
decades. In a nutshell, tides cause friction between the oceans and
the ocean floors, which transfers energy from the solid part of the
earth to the oceans. One of the effects of this friction is that the
tidal bulge is off-center, and is located "eastward" of the moon. (So
the high tide actually occurs when the moon is west of overhead.) The
result of the tidal bulge being off center is that there is a torgue
effect placed on the moon, and this in turn transfers energy from the
earth to the moon. The earth's spin rate slows, the moon is speeded in
its orbit and therefor moves further away from the earth. (This
transfer of energy is essentially a transfer of angular momentum,
which is a conserved quantity.) The historical (over geological eras)
rate of recession has varied due to varying amounts of tidal friction
due to shallower or deeper oceans, and the positions of the
continents."

For the benefit of all my loyal critics, I've conceded that there's a
darn good chance that the likes of Tim Thompson has more than a few
valid points as to his version of what's what. This following page is
just another example of my learning from the pros, of accepting other
input, which may even including the likes of what you've just
presented, that I'd not be calling flak, as there actually seems to be
some considerable worth to at least Tim's version of the lunar
recession, if I don't say so myself.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/earth-moon-energy.htm

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA http://guthvenus.tripod.com

Brad Guth wrote:

The same strange stuff again...somehow this is both fitting and exactly
right on a night with a total lunar eclipse... time to crank up some
Pink Floyd, and contemplate Giant Venusian Airships and the Drag Of
Space...as the Cather Lizards crawl around on the ceiling of my mind.

Pat

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:53:06 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote:

Brad Guth wrote:

The same strange stuff again...somehow this is both fitting and exactly
right on a night with a total lunar eclipse... time to crank up some
Pink Floyd, and contemplate Giant Venusian Airships and the Drag Of
Space...as the Cather Lizards crawl around on the ceiling of my mind.

Do the Cather lizards eat any Palmetto bugs they find there?

Pat

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

Chuck Stewart wrote:



The same strange stuff again...somehow this is both fitting and exactly
right on a night with a total lunar eclipse... time to crank up some
Pink Floyd, and contemplate Giant Venusian Airships and the Drag Of
Space...as the Cather Lizards crawl around on the ceiling of my mind.



Do the Cather lizards eat any Palmetto bugs they find there?


Yeah, they stuff green olives with them and use them in the Firewomen's
martinis. And at the temp on Venus, any martini is a _dry_ martini.

Pat

Chuck Stewart wrote in message abs.edu...
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:53:06 -0600, Pat Flannery wrote:

Brad Guth wrote:

The same strange stuff again...somehow this is both fitting and exactly
right on a night with a total lunar eclipse... time to crank up some
Pink Floyd, and contemplate Giant Venusian Airships and the Drag Of
Space...as the Cather Lizards crawl around on the ceiling of my mind.

Do the Cather lizards eat any Palmetto bugs they find there?

Pat

Probably not but, I'd bet they'd acquire a real taste for human flesh,
KFH style, especially of the really dumb and arrogant sort of flesh,
since it's more salty.

Any ideas about what nocturnal lizard folks see, as I'm interested,
even if you're not. http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-illumination.htm


Just in case some of the new comers are a bit lost; All of this lunar
interest is in regard to my Lunar Space Elevator and/or GMDE (Guth
Moon Dirt Express) depot, as a means/gateway to an end:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/earth-moon-energy.htm

Pat Flannery wrote:



Chuck Stewart wrote:



The same strange stuff again...somehow this is both fitting and
exactly right on a night with a total lunar eclipse... time to crank
up some Pink Floyd, and contemplate Giant Venusian Airships and the
Drag Of Space...as the Cather Lizards crawl around on the ceiling of
my mind.



Do the Cather lizards eat any Palmetto bugs they find there?


Yeah, they stuff green olives with them and use them in the Firewomen's
martinis. And at the temp on Venus, any martini is a _dry_ martini.


Pat, why all this talk about snorting organics? Tsk, Tsk