Ionization energy to fully ionize Xenon?

I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully* ionize
xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization energy in several
sources, for example he

Ionization energies of the elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizat...f_the_elements

However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so the list should
go up to 54, right? But I've never seen anything other than up to only
the 3rd ionization energy for xenon.
Have the higher ones not been measured?



Bob Clark

On 24 sep, 14:13, Robert Clark wrote:
I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully* ionize
xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization energy in several
sources, for example he

Ionization energies of the elements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizat...f_the_elements

However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so the list should
go up to 54, right? But I've never seen anything other than up to only
the 3rd ionization energy for xenon.
Have the higher ones not been measured?

Bob Clark

I guess not.

Even the CRC Handbook notes only the first 3.

André Michaud

Robert Clark wrote:

I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully* ionize
xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization energy in several
sources, for example he

Ionization energies of the elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizat...f_the_elements

However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so the list should
go up to 54, right? But I've never seen anything other than up to only
the 3rd ionization energy for xenon.
Have the higher ones not been measured?

Look up "charge stripping" for naked nucleus injection into
accelerators. If you are stooopid without a computer you are still
stooopid with one.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Dear Robert Clark:

On Sep 24, 11:13 am, Robert Clark wrote:
I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully*
ionize xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization
energy in several sources, for example he

Ionization energies of the elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizat...f_the_elements

However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so
the list should go up to 54, right? But I've never seen
anything other than up to only the 3rd ionization energy
for xenon. Have the higher ones not been measured?

I would think you could get some clue to the ionization energies by
using positrons to neutralize orbital electrons, and reviewing the
resulting spray.

Are you expecting something odd?

David A. Smith

Robert Clark wrote:

I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully* ionize
xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization energy in several
sources, for example he

Ionization energies of the elements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizat...f_the_elements

However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so the list should
go up to 54, right? But I've never seen anything other than up to only
the 3rd ionization energy for xenon.
Have the higher ones not been measured?



Bob Clark



have you looked in the NIST Atomic Spectra Database Levels yet?
http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/...vels_form.html
enter Xe 53 to get the last (54th) electron ionization energy
(41,299.7042eV) etc.
or you could also try:
http://www.camdb.ac.cn/e/ionization_potential/

On Sep 24, 3:29 pm, dlzc wrote:
Dear Robert Clark:

On Sep 24, 11:13 am, Robert Clark wrote: I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully*
ionize xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization
energy in several sources, for example he

Ionization energies of the elements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizat...f_the_elements



However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so
the list should go up to 54, right? But I've never seen
anything other than up to only the 3rd ionization energy
for xenon. Have the higher ones not been measured?

I would think you could get some clue to the ionization energies by
using positrons to neutralize orbital electrons, and reviewing the
resulting spray.

Are you expecting something odd?

David A. Smith

Thanks. Sabella's links look like they might give the answer.
The question stems from this discussion:

Newsgroups: sci.space.policy, sci.astro, sci.physics,
sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics.fusion
From: Robert Clark
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:47:28 -0700
Local: Thurs, Sep 20 2007 4:47 pm
Subject: Stored ionized gas for ion drives.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...4c75eb5630f41d

I wanted to use ions stored already in fully ionized form so that we
could apply all the power available to accelerating the ions rather
than some going to ionizing the gas.
It is true that only a relatively low proportion of the power goes to
ionizing the gas, such as xenon, in an ion drive. But the reason is
that the xenon gas is only being partially ionized, perhaps only one
or two electrons being knocked off.
Then a gas that is fully ionized would undergo higher velocity since
it would have a higher positive charge being acted on by the
electrostatic forces.
That the xenon is actually only minimally ionized in an ion drive is
illuminated by the data Sabella supplied in his post: 41,000 eV
required to remove the last electron from the xenon atom. 1 eV counts
as about 100 kJ/mol. So this means removing that final electron would
have required 4 billion joules per mol of xenon, about 30 million
joules per gram.
This is just for that single last electron. The total for removing
all of them would be in the hundreds of millions of joules per gram.


Bob Clark

On Sep 24, 11:13 am, Robert Clark wrote:
I'm looking for how much energy it would take to *fully* ionize
xenon. I can find the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, ionization energy in several
sources, for example he

Some accelerator mass specs use 9 million volts and a thin carbon film
to strip nuclei, presumably completely (since they go on to do mass
separation on them.) So there you have an upper value to your 54th
ionization constant.

Dangerous Bill

Dear Robert Clark:

On Sep 25, 1:07 pm, Robert Clark wrote:
....
However, the neutral xenon atom has 54 electrons, so
the list should go up to 54, right? But I've never seen
anything other than up to only the 3rd ionization energy
for xenon. Have the higher ones not been measured?

I would think you could get some clue to the ionization
energies by using positrons to neutralize orbital electrons,
and reviewing the resulting spray.

Are you expecting something odd?

Thanks. Sabella's links look like they might give the
answer. The question stems from this discussion:

Newsgroups: sci.space.policy, sci.astro, sci.physics,
sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics.fusion
From: Robert Clark
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:47:28 -0700
Local: Thurs, Sep 20 2007 4:47 pm
Subject: Stored ionized gas for ion drives.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...frm/thread/109...

I wanted to use ions stored already in fully ionized
form so that we could apply all the power available
to accelerating the ions rather than some going to
ionizing the gas.

A high temperature plasma.

It is true that only a relatively low proportion of the
power goes to ionizing the gas, such as xenon, in
an ion drive.

.... which is why that gas was chosen, because realtively little power
is available.

But the reason is that the xenon gas is only being
partially ionized, perhaps only one or two electrons
being knocked off.

One.

Then a gas that is fully ionized would undergo
higher velocity since it would have a higher positive
charge being acted on by the electrostatic forces.

Please study "specific impulse".

That the xenon is actually only minimally ionized
in an ion drive is illuminated by the data Sabella
supplied in his post: 41,000 eV required to remove
the last electron from the xenon atom. 1 eV counts
as about 100 kJ/mol. So this means removing that
final electron would have required 4 billion joules
per mol of xenon, about 30 million joules per gram.

Much much more than you could ever get out as thrust.

This is just for that single last electron. The total
for removing all of them would be in the hundreds
of millions of joules per gram.

Take out that one, and it would avalanche the rest of them... in a
plasma.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ApJ...016/17016.html

I'm thinking you don't get 54 electrons removed at less than 1 million
Kelvin.

And has been pointed out, the neutrons hurt the specific impulse.
Much more than the exposed 54 protons will allow acceleration. You'd
be *much* better off with 54 individual protons, aka. hydrogen plasma.

David A. Smith

Robert Clark wrote:
[snip]

I wanted to use ions stored already in fully ionized form
[snip crap]

You are an idiot. Calculate the coulomb repulsion of a mole of
Xe(54+) stored in a liter of volume. Whatcha gonna store it in,
idiot? Presumably a material that does not contain electrons?
Xe(54+) is gonna be a rather, ah, vigorous oxidizing agent.

Then a gas that is fully ionized would undergo higher velocity since
it would have a higher positive charge being acted on by the
electrostatic forces.
[snip rest of crap]

****ing imbecile. YOU DON'T WANT VELOCITY, JACKASS. You want
momentum. Velocity is a waste of energy, (mv^2)/2m when momentum only
builds as mv. You want the drive to **** lead balls.

Bob Clark

Ineducable idiot.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

On Sep 25, 7:25 pm, Uncle Al wrote:
...

Ineducable idiot.



"The harshly you ridicule someone else, the more likely you are to
be wrong yourself."

- Anonymous