NASA is coming along just fine now.

As I post so rarely in this group, then a quick reminder may be in
order. So that you can understand my following comments.

I first came to this group shortly following the Columbia accident,
back in early 2003. Where I was extremely annoyed at NASA's progress
during the past 30 odd years, where I needed to vent.

One point I guess is if NASA is actually worthy of such ire? As I and
many others believe so. When back during the late sixties and early
seventies they took on the role of this planet's number one
organization in charge of human space exploration.

Since NASA following the Apollo days seems to have well mastered the
role of a less than ideal human space exploration organization, then
that is why they have been going around in circles ever since.

So people like myself look towards them for turning dreams of science
fiction into science fact. Our local part of this Universe is ours
claim and use as we please, where one day we will actually go and
claim it.

To explain my large annoyance, then for a long time I have had faith
in NASA. After all they do so well with their space probes. And most
of all they have for a long time had a plan about real space
exploration from their office of human space exploration (aka the
broom cupboard).

That human space exploration plan, the first time I read it, stated
that NASA planned to be back on the Moon to stay, by 2010, and on to
Mars by 2020.

Since I was born in 1971, then NASA's only shot at real space
exploration ended before I was aged two. And at an age far too young
to even understand or remember this event. This is why I happily say
that I have never known real human space exploration in my lifetime.

As I am currently aged thirty three, then I am more than a touch
annoyed that during these past 30 years us humans have gone quickly
nowhere. And I can say that it is one of my desires, or goals, in life
to see humans walk on another planet.

Since my average life expectancy places my death at around 2047, then
to me it seems that they better damned well hurry up. Mars is the key
goal, but a good Lunar Base is the second option.

This Columbia accident combined with NASA's failure to follow their
own human space exploration plan made me get so annoyed that I came
here to have a good moan.

What is more I made clear to NASA, via this group, what they should be
doing. That is to take us humans to places beyond the Earth, where
resources, the unexpected and much more awaits.

The most interesting aspect at this time was that my human space
exploration idea met with a considerable amount of resistance. Where
some person or other was only too happy to point out the technical or
political reasons of why it could not be done.

In the end the core reason was that NASA was simply too useless to
ever do it. An obscene governmental jobs program that was happy with
it's own progress as long as they turned out some worthwhile results
now and again.

Not to mention that no one would ever pay for them to go do it would
they? How wrong they were.

What is more is that the future of space exploration needs a
considerable amount of vision. When the true goal of this path
certainly won't be seen within our own lifetime. Where as we know some
people can be extremely short sighted.

Following my moan and seeing the resistance I left this group. Where I
only returned when I found out, with considerable shock, that NASA had
decided to take up real human space exploration.

I can say that this official word soon swept away the former
resistance. When we would not wish to be out of touch with NASA's
current space plans now would we?

Naturally, people were concerned with one project or another, but that
is understandable. Not to forget how NASA was going to raise funding
for this vast project.

I can say that how NASA, and even the President, handled this matter
was quite impressive. As I guess they can understand how important
human space exploration is. Where they to date cannot certainly be
faulted for messing this up with bad ideas.

No doubt their astronauts are more than a touch happy. When they are
the people who will actually be doing this exploration. Hell, it is
even a worthwhile cause to die for, unlike Columbia and Challenger.

The reusable flexible craft idea was a good one. When only mass
production of a common basic design can keep costs down. While at the
same time allowing for an upgrade path.

Even NASA getting their own departments in shape seems to be coming
along well. However, as one recent report highlighted, then NASA needs
to become more efficient by reducing their work force.

Yes, even closure of one of more of NASA's centers simply must happen
if they are to get their funds liquid instead of being tied up in
overheads.

Watching NASA's launches or arrivals on NASA TV is always an
impressive event. Not due to their equally impressive hardware, but
due to the vast, and I mean VAST, numbers of people. Where all these
people seem to have nothing better to do than to stand around and
watch.

Oh yes, they even cut to NASA's other centers. Where even more
compressed numbers of people are also standing and watching.

NASA pays people to watch? I guess they don't have other important
work to do if their equally watching bosses do not tell them to set
the VCR and get back to work.

Still, that is a problem that NASA needs to sort out in future years,
or at least by 2012. When anyone not directly on the project team
needs to work hard or be fired.

Sure it is all history in the making and an impressive sight, but
standing around doing squat all in front of the camera is not helping
their case. Then with the Shuttles being out of action for over a
year, then you must wonder just how many other people are being paid
for doing next to nothing?

One strange thing I discovered, at the early stage of this plan, was
NASA's idea to simply ignore their future need of a HLV. As anyone
with any concept concerning rockets to the Moon (and further), soon
understands that the current Atlas and Delta ones are simply not
powerful enough.

That was done I guess to avoid reminding congress and others that they
would really be needing to pay for two new craft instead of one. And I
am pleased to say that this HLV reality is now being included in such
plans and funding.

Still, as NASA is only too happy to point out, then this plan can go
as slowly or as fast as congress desires. When if congress was not
happy to pay for their HLV just yet, then NASA could delay the
progress of their exploration plan until they are.

I would ideally like to see a large increase in the Shuttle flight
rate to complete the ISS by 2008. As by closing down the Shuttle
support system early, then so does much more funding become available
for NASA's new plans to came about earlier.

Even paying back borrowed funds to increase the Shuttle flight rate
would still leave extra funds for new hardware. A good idea of mine
that has not yet met with official approval.

Sure, there have been just as many other crazy ideas as there are
people with a vested interests in seeing their own department or
company get government funding. Still, the oh great and wise NASA has
been avoiding those bad ideas... so far.

Maybe collective good ideas on the Net is to blame?

All that is except for the small commercial company called Scaled
Composites. Who, oddly enough, seem to be their own worst enemy in
promoting their own company for a slice of future human space flight.

I was even hoping following this recent SpaceShip One visit to near
space that someone would stand up and say "Now the World can come to
us for low cost access to space". Not that they would given their
history, but their progress speaks for itself. Where many people still
listen to what they do not, and yet *should*, say.

No doubt either them, or another similar company, will one day be
taking NASA's very own astronauts to LEO or further. Before these true
explorers then blast off to new destinations.

That is the way things should be. When after all no one has ever got
into space for such a low cost. Where the combination of cheap flight
to LEO and commercial space hotels will certainly open LEO up to
anyone, in good health, who can afford the ticket.

NASA however needs to move a crap load of cargo. Where even given
visions of the future, then it is hard to see how the commercial side
could move that volume in the near term.

Hence, NASA needs their expensive... HLV.

One other thing I have been thinking about recently is NASA's future
moon base. And to begin with I would rule out the new idea of having a
movable base, when that would place limits and technical constraints
on this base.

If it was up to myself, then I would do things on a grand scale. As I
would get many people to work 24 hours a day (in shifts) for a couple
of years to make an entire small city.

Still, then I am thinking more along line of explosive exploration,
where NASA is sure to do things on the smaller scale. However, by
making use of Lunar resources to make standard building segments, then
they could expand just as much as they desired.

Why think small? Infrastructure is just as important as exploration
after all. Maybe they could even ship out some of the damned
"watchers" and force them to do some hard manual labour.

I guess that NASA wisely wishes to learn first, before letting things
grow to the grand scale. When is it is not better to have a small
failure instead of a big one? Except of course that success can also
be measured on the small and large scale.

It is also true to say that if NASA wishes to minimise the costs of a
Moon Base, instead of casting it aside like the ISS, then they would
need to work along the lines of self-supporting.

As once that is achieved, with only the rare cargo flight, then so is
your base fully operational to do great things. And to work towards
that aim, then NASA must aim towards the simple and to avoid the
complex.

Most of all they need to stop blasting valuable hardware out of this
large gravity well only to waste the cost by bringing this hardware
back. Hell even their astronauts should spend at least a year or two,
at minimum, in space, simply to reduce the cost of replacing them.

Russia due to funding issues learned that idea long ago. And at least
the Moon, with added body mass, is not nearly as harmful.

Past changes to NASA's goals seems almost like they are listening to
me to such a point that they should employ me as a kind of guidance
officer. :-]

Still, then I guess that there are many people who know the truth in
what NASA should be doing. And for once NASA being able to cast off
their own former bad ideas, including the Shuttle, means that they are
actually listening.

And well I would not wish to become another NASA overhead would I?

As I cannot fault NASA's current ideas, then this plan working out is
mostly a question of technology and money. And NASA certainly should
be dismantled if they cannot build a rocket and capsule. Where even
modern technology can make it extra reusable and useful.

Not to forget funding. As one thing Scaled Composites proves, to the
shame of NASA, is that the key aspect is always money. As other
hopefuls to the X prize have not done as well, mostly due to lack of
funding.

One day someone will certainly pay them to take people into LEO, but
NASA's case is vastly different. As since NASA cannot seem to be
working any better towards this goal, even cutting their own vitals
off, then congress at the very least should give them the chance.

Certainly, we know that NASA will cost 10 times as much as the
commercial people. Not to mention that history shows that the odds are
that they will mess it up in the end, but then again they are the only
horse that is possible of crossing the finishing line.

Not to mention that other horses, like ESA, Russia and China, will
only join the race, when there is actually a race to join.

And even in the worst case that they badly mess things up. Then it
will give others a vision of what is within reach. Where they will
also learn from NASA's failings.

Anyway I am already picking out the Jovian Base. Where I would tend to
pick Ganymede. Less radiation and the extra mass will help keep people
in shape. Although Europa would provide extra scientific gain.

Bound to be a great view none-the-less, but the best view is always to
be found at Saturn. Maybe a base on Titan, what with the great
research this moon could provide, but then that would ruin the view.

In any case I sure hope that things work out. Where the key point at
this time is getting the approval of congress. NASA and the President
have done their best. Where at least paying them to do this is better
than paying them to do what they are currently doing.

Not that these MERs and Cassini are bad things, when they at minimum
increases NASA knowledge of these areas where one day humans will
visit. As it is just that getting a few humans there will provide a
much better science return to cost ratio.

In any journey the hardest step is always the first one. Where NASA's
first step to beyond Earth's gravity well is bound to be an extra hard
trip. However, once that has been completed (without keeping stepping
back), then so can the real journey begin.

Anyway, since it often requires a step back in order to see a better
future, then seeing NASA's human exploration plan bare fruit is the
best possible event that can be dedicated to the memory of those
killed during the Columbia break-up.

There is no better cause than turning your worst defeats into your
greatest successes after all.

Snip and reply as you wish.

Cardman.
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

Cardman wrote in message . ..
As I post so rarely in this group, then a quick reminder may be in
order. So that you can understand my following comments.

I first came to this group shortly following the Columbia accident,
back in early 2003. Where I was extremely annoyed at NASA's progress
during the past 30 odd years, where I needed to vent.

One point I guess is if NASA is actually worthy of such ire? As I and
many others believe so. When back during the late sixties and early
seventies they took on the role of this planet's number one
organization in charge of human space exploration.

Unfortunatley, NASA is bound by politics. They must answer to
politicians whose goals are re-election and handouts buy more votes
than space exploration does. If NASA was free to explore space, they
would do quite well.

I'm so sorry you missed the real age of exploration. It was grand.
--
Gene Seibel
Space Ship One - http://pad39a.com/gene/ss1.html
Because I fly, I envy no one - except Mike Melvill.

On 7 Jul 2004 07:55:18 -0700, (Gene Seibel) wrote:

Unfortunatley, NASA is bound by politics. They must answer to
politicians whose goals are re-election and handouts buy more votes
than space exploration does.

True enough. However, any good cause needs good leadership in order to
convert people to that cause. Unfortunately, in this case, it also
needs good wisdom as well. When it is a difficult idea to sell and in
the past many flaws have been uncovered.

That is why I say that they could not have done any better in this
case. When costs have been limited to the rate of progression and the
technology of the hardware is sound enough.

Also I guess it is the case that NASA is a lot more prepared for
serious space exploration now. When from the early 1970s technology
had to catch up. Where they even now have basic space weather (solar
flares) monitoring.

As to politics, then every *good* politician should always give people
what they need. Since this is not always what they want, then you
should be able to spot good and bad politicians.

Democracy is a good idea, until you realise that the general public is
both stupid and ignorant. Not that the politicians would directly
mention this of course. So their voters should be flexible and let
them do their job.

The question is does people need human space exploration? And I for
one can see a great deal of return from such investment.

If NASA was free to explore space, they would do quite well.

I would question if they are actually competent enough make use of
space exploration with resulting infrastructure construction? As
things like the Shuttle and ISS does not inspire confidence.

Hell, they have never even been serious about seeing how much mass
they can get off this planet for their $$$. So all they have is their
exclusive club and spending their budget on what looks "fun".

Still, NASA is slowly changing. And just maybe they will get serious
about space exploration and put their budget to good use.

As I said once before, then I care not one bit as to their desired HLV
rocket hardware. When their only two considerations are launch cost
per kg and that they can actually do it.

Once they have a cost efficient launch system, then there are very
many things that they could put on it that their new Lunar Base won't
already have.

One recent point is that once they are up there, then they can put
their astronauts to good use in exploring and construction. Once they
can build from Lunar resources, then I would consider building a solid
infrastructure just as important as exploration.

More so in fact. When anyone can explorer to a greater or lesser
degree, but you need the infrastructure to support them. So more
people supported equals greater exploration.

As I mentioned my method would result in a small (industrial) sized
city, providing nearly everything that a Lunar Colony needs. And I am
sure that they can write their own list.

I'm so sorry you missed the real age of exploration. It was grand.

The real age of space exploration has not even started. Short hops to
the Moon and their space probes do not count. These MERs are the most
advanced so far, but they can only achieve a fraction of what a human
could achieve.

So the last real age of exploration was back in earlier centuries on
this planet. When explorers left their home and took a trip to
destination unknown.

The planets and moons in this solar system cannot be understood until
you have humans walking all over them and looking for themselves. And
just like earlier exploration there is bound to be a lot of resources
to exploit.

Still, I can sense that this "golden age" is soon approaching. Not to
forget the likes of TPF actually discovering life containing planets,
including ones where we can live, will one day cause us humans to set
out on a very long voyage into the unknown.

One last point I guess is that it won't be NASA who does this real
exploration, construction and more, but at least they can make a good
start at it. As no one can control human nature, which is a recipe
that just needs humans.

So the most important job that NASA can do is to see how many people
they can get up there. Not to forget keeping them alive to a high
degree.

Cardman.
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk