Bright object in western sky?

On May 24, 2:02 pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article . com,

oriel36 wrote:
Here is an image of Venus as it overtakes the slower orbitally moving
Earth with the central Sun in the background -

http://www.kwastronomy.com/images/Ve...sit-3-1-2c.jpg

The image above of Venus, in an inner orbital circuit,overtaking the
Earth is so rare that it will only happen once in a lifetime ,the
next time in 2012.

Venus overtakes the earth every 584 days. Presumably you are
referring to a transit of Venus, when it passes exactly between the
earth and the Sun.

The only acceptablle,do you hear this,the only acceptable view of the
event is that the faster orbital motion of Venus overetakes the slower
orbital motion of the Earth with the central stationary Sun as the
backdrop.

The reason astronomy does not exist for the rest of humanity is that
very feebleminded people who treat astronomy solely as an exercise in
magnification cannot rise to the level of intutive intelligence which
was present in astronomers 500 years ago.The event where the faster
orbital motion of Mercury overtook the slower orbital motion of the
Earth last November barely was heard as a news item because the only
authority availible describes it as a planet passing against the Sun
with no mention of the Earth's orbital motion.


As you say, this will next happen in 2012, but it
it's hardly a once-in-a-lifetime event since the photo you link to was
taken in 2004. In fact, for most people it's either a
never-in-a-lifetime or a twice-in-a-lifetime event.

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

It will be a once in a lifetime event for people insofar as that
orbital event in 2012 will be the first time it will be presented as
an affirmation of Copernican reasoning based on orbital
comparisons.The faster orbital motion of the Earth accounts for the
slower forward motion of the outer planets in our common heliocentric
orbits while the contemporary affirmation of a common heliocentric
orbit using the inner planets should have been these 'transit'
events.Neither Copernicus or Kepler would have telescopes to affirm
heliocentricity this way but modern imaging can.

The truly horrific destruction of Western astronomy is due to the
inability to correctly identify that the faster orbital motion of the
Earth overtaking the slower outer planets accounts for a common
heliocentric orbital motion -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

Looking to the outer planets Copernicus accounedt for heliocentricity
that way and using the faster orbital motion of the inner planets and
the transits the modern viewer can now account for heliocentric orbits
by this means.The dominant and useless contemporary view you
originating with and only with Newton,you can do nothing with -

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

Go ahead and try and defend the stupidity of Newton,it means that
another generation will be denied the appreciation of Copernican
reasoning.

In article . com,
oriel36 wrote:

The only acceptablle,do you hear this,the only acceptable view [...]

Then I'm afraid you're going to have to accept the unacceptable.

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

On May 24, 5:09 pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article . com,

oriel36 wrote:
The only acceptablle,do you hear this,the only acceptable view [...]

Then I'm afraid you're going to have to accept the unacceptable.

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

Here is the faster Earth overtaking the slower orbitally moving outer
planets as the main Copernican argument for a common orbital motion
around the central Sun -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

Here is the faster orbitally moving Venus,in an inner orbital
circuit , overtaking the slower orbitally moving Earth with the
central Sun as a backdrop , an event that also affirms a common
heliocentric orbit -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_fd8O1sk3I

You have the time lapse footage before you and you still defend the
false approach to and resolution of retrogrades that originated with
Newton -

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

There is no hypothetical observer on the Sun needed to resolve
retrogrades as it is all appreciated from an orbitally moving Earth -

" In this arrangement, therefore, we discover a marvelous symmetry
of the universe, and an established harmonious linkage between the
motion of the spheres and their size, such as can be found in no other
way. For this permits a not inattentive student to perceive why the
forward and backward arcs appear greater in Jupiter than in Saturn and
smaller than in Mars... All these phenomena proceed from the same
cause, which is in the earth's motion. " COPERNICUS

The time lapse footage above the Earth overtaking Jupiter and
Saturn,when reduced to individual images of the two planets show
exactly what Copernicus is describing in that paragraph -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...loop_tezel.jpg

There were no telescopes around as a means for Copernicus to use the
faster orbitally moving Venus and Mercury overtaking the slower moving
Earth but there are now and this is the only acceptable way to
approach the event.

It is not the astrological magnification guys that I have
difficulties with,they are content in their celestial sphere bubble,it
is with genuine people who should have no difficulties with modern
imaging as a way to explain the observed motion of the planets by
using an orbitally moving Earth.Surely there is somebody who can use
the faster orbital motion of the Earth against the outer planets and
the slower orbital motion of the Earth against the inner planets to
affirm a common heliocentric orbit and the arrangement of planets
around the central Sun.You cannot do this with a dumb Newtonian view -

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

It is unimaginable that a group of people would knowingly support a
false approach to and resolution of the main Copernican arguments for
the motions of the Earth and for what !.You continue to disgrace
yourselves for a numbskull who had no feel for astronomy and its noble
heritage and it shows in the level you allow yourselves to fall
to.Hypocrits who profess an interest in astronomy but detest its
priceless insights.

In article . com,
oriel36 wrote:

You have the time lapse footage before you and you still defend

I don't need to defend anything, since it isn't being competently
attacked. Everyone in the world - except, apparently, you - can
understand relative motion.

-- Richard
--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

On May 24, 10:10 pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article . com,

oriel36 wrote:
You have the time lapse footage before you and you still defend

I don't need to defend anything, since it isn't being competently
attacked. Everyone in the world - except, apparently, you - can
understand relative motion.

-- Richard

Here you go ,have a good look at the statement that has wrecked the
Copernican insights and try and defend it -

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

How are you going to derive the Copernican insight that axial rotation
accounts for the daily cycle when you try to account for retrogrades
and orbital motion using a hypothetical observer on the Sun ?.Thats
right you fools,you cannot do it.

There is only one way to approiach retrogrades,one way to resolve it
and using modern imaging,the 'transit' events are the most immediate
visible affirmation of a common heliocentric orbit for all the planets
as seen from an orbitally moving Earth -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_fd8O1sk3I


With actual imaging availible to show the stupidity of Newton in
astronomical matters the only question left is why do you hate
astronomy ?.





--
"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters
in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963.

"oriel36" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 24, 10:10 pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article . com,

oriel36 wrote:
You have the time lapse footage before you and you still defend

I don't need to defend anything, since it isn't being competently
attacked. Everyone in the world - except, apparently, you - can
understand relative motion.

-- Richard

Here you go ,have a good look at the statement that has wrecked the
Copernican insights and try and defend it -

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

How are you going to derive the Copernican insight that axial rotation
accounts for the daily cycle when you try to account for retrogrades
and orbital motion using a hypothetical observer on the Sun ?.Thats
right you fools,you cannot do it.

Since you are such a pest on this group I think it's reasonable to ask if
you are on medication or similar (regular therapy sessions) for this
obsessive behaviour?

I don't know if you've ever read 'The Sea. The Sea" by Iris Murdoch, but
there is a thread running through it of someone (IIRC) who had a vision
during a LSD trip that recurrs much later in his life.

You do sound very much as though you had a minor revelation during some kind
of psychic trauma that has become obsessional to you. To some extent, yes,
what you are saying is true, but only to a very trivial extent and your
obsessive postings about is are not healthy.
..
I assume you've heard the Beatles song 'The Fool on the Hill'; you seem like
the man who "sees the world spinning 'round", but cannot see that there are
other motions too.

On May 26, 2:07 am, "OG" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

ups.com...



On May 24, 10:10 pm, (Richard Tobin) wrote:
In article . com,

oriel36 wrote:
You have the time lapse footage before you and you still defend

I don't need to defend anything, since it isn't being competently
attacked. Everyone in the world - except, apparently, you - can
understand relative motion.

-- Richard

Here you go ,have a good look at the statement that has wrecked the
Copernican insights and try and defend it -

" For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct," Newton

How are you going to derive the Copernican insight that axial rotation
accounts for the daily cycle when you try to account for retrogrades
and orbital motion using a hypothetical observer on the Sun ?.Thats
right you fools,you cannot do it.

Since you are such a pest on this group I think it's reasonable to ask if
you are on medication or similar (regular therapy sessions) for this
obsessive behaviour?

I don't know if you've ever read 'The Sea. The Sea" by Iris Murdoch, but
there is a thread running through it of someone (IIRC) who had a vision
during a LSD trip that recurrs much later in his life.

You do sound very much as though you had a minor revelation during some kind
of psychic trauma that has become obsessional to you. To some extent, yes,
what you are saying is true, but only to a very trivial extent and your
obsessive postings about is are not healthy.
.
I assume you've heard the Beatles song 'The Fool on the Hill'; you seem like
the man who "sees the world spinning 'round", but cannot see that there are
other motions too.

There are now enough images along with the original texts to provide
the astronomical basics for a normal audience to understand with
special emphasis in making heliocentric reasoning as enjoyable as I
have found it

While incredible that nobody here affirms the faster orbital motion
of the inner planets and the slower orbital motion of the outer
planets as seen from an orbitally moving Earth i,it is understandable
given the cult doctrines you adhere to

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_fd8O1sk3I

While it will take some time to tidy up the presentation and do all
those things I never really got a chance to do during the astonomical
'construction' phase ,the broad outlines are in place and can now be
framed for people to enjoy.,

You continue with your astrological/magnification exercise.

"oriel36" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 26, 2:07 am, "OG" wrote:


There are now enough images along with the original texts to provide
the astronomical basics for a normal audience to understand with
special emphasis in making heliocentric reasoning as enjoyable as I
have found it

As I said
to some extent, yes, what you are saying is true, but only to a very trivial
extent and your obsessive postings about it are not healthy.

So be a good chap and find another outlet for your problems

On May 27, 11:45 pm, "OG" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

ups.com...

On May 26, 2:07 am, "OG" wrote:

There are now enough images along with the original texts to provide
the astronomical basics for a normal audience to understand with
special emphasis in making heliocentric reasoning as enjoyable as I
have found it

As I said
to some extent, yes, what you are saying is true, but only to a very trivial
extent and your obsessive postings about it are not healthy.



Right now there are more than a few people who would like to know what
is going on with global climate and apart from global warming why more
extreme meteorological conditions appear.Understanding global warming
and hemispherical weather patterns (Seasons) involves having a healthy
view of the Earth's motions and how global climate arising from these
motions reduces to the seasons.Presently,the explanation for the
seasons based on a pseudo-dynamic of variable axial tilt or solar
inclination is so unsatisfactory that it approches the level of
untenable.

You want the 17th century analemma hoax based on variable inclination
and it is destroying the ability of men to work with the motions of
the Earth but how these motions mesh with climatological studies.It is
a serious,serious matter beyond the fact that Flamsteed introduced
astrological concepts in heliocentric reasoning and Newton built on
that astrological framework.

I would have no choice but to make the differing conceptions availible
here , even if the reception is hostile ,however I am not disposed to
remain here calling attention to astronomical matters that cannot wait
for people who cannot rise or do not want to rise above magnification
and an astrological framework.It would have been easier to work with
people here on this shared astronomical heritage but obviously you
like that 17th century cartoon creation and there is nothing I can and
would do about it.

Indulge yourselves in your magnification hobby but that is and never
was astronomy proper.

"oriel36" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 27, 11:45 pm, "OG" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message

ups.com...

On May 26, 2:07 am, "OG" wrote:

There are now enough images along with the original texts to provide
the astronomical basics for a normal audience to understand with
special emphasis in making heliocentric reasoning as enjoyable as I
have found it

As I said
to some extent, yes, what you are saying is true, but only to a very
trivial
extent and your obsessive postings about it are not healthy.



Right now there are more than a few people who would like to know what


I really have no interest in your obsessions, just as you have no real
interest in astronomy.