SpaceDev getting into the (orbital) launch business

This was news to me, maybe it is to you too: SpaceDev is planning to
leverage its experience with the SS1 motor into a small orbital launcher
called "Streaker." From http://www.spacedev.com/newsite/templates/subpage_article.php?pid=475:

'The SpaceDev StreakerÔ is being developed under contract with the Air
Force Research Laboratory.* The SpaceDev StreakerÔ is designed to put up
to 1,000 pounds into low earth orbit, at an estimated price of $5
million.* The SpaceDev StreakerÔ will use a variation of the
SpaceShipOne motor as the upper stage, and for the orbit insertion
stage, SpaceDev will use a variation of the "space tug" motor SpaceDev
is developing for the Air Force Research Laboratory under a different
contract.'

I couldn't find any information about what they'd be using for the lower
stage.

It's interesting to compare this to SpaceX's offerings -- 1000 lbs is
about 454 kg, which is similar to (perhaps slightly less than) the
Falcon I's payload (depending on inclination and altitude). And a
Falcon I launch is $6M, compared to SpaceDev's estimated $5M.

So, both companies are planning to offer (well, SpaceX is already
offering) small orbital launch at about $10k/kg, give or take. And I
think they both have the potential to make good on these plans.

Pretty interesting times... it will be particularly fun watching the
nay-sayers argue that SS1 has no relevance to orbital spaceflight after
SpaceDev uses the funding and experience gained from SS1 to build
Streaker.

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'

Joe Strout :

Pretty interesting times... it will be particularly fun watching the
nay-sayers argue that SS1 has no relevance to orbital spaceflight after
SpaceDev uses the funding and experience gained from SS1 to build
Streaker.

Correct, nothing breds success like success. There is a very good chance
that they won the contract because they could point to successful air-starts
and time/thrust control of thier motor. Ofcourse they showed that already on
the test bench but people like in the Air Force don't trust test bench
results. Seeing it work in a flying vechile probably was the push they
needed.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp

Joe Strout wrote in message ...
This was news to me, maybe it is to you too: SpaceDev is planning to
leverage its experience with the SS1 motor into a small orbital launcher
called "Streaker." From http://www.spacedev.com/newsite/templates/subpage_article.php?pid=475:

'The SpaceDev StreakerÔ is being developed under contract with the Air
Force Research Laboratory. The SpaceDev StreakerÔ is designed to put up
to 1,000 pounds into low earth orbit, at an estimated price of $5
million. The SpaceDev StreakerÔ will use a variation of the
SpaceShipOne motor as the upper stage, and for the orbit insertion
stage, SpaceDev will use a variation of the "space tug" motor SpaceDev
is developing for the Air Force Research Laboratory under a different
contract.'

I couldn't find any information about what they'd be using for the lower
stage.

It's interesting to compare this to SpaceX's offerings -- 1000 lbs is
about 454 kg, which is similar to (perhaps slightly less than) the
Falcon I's payload (depending on inclination and altitude). And a
Falcon I launch is $6M, compared to SpaceDev's estimated $5M.

So, both companies are planning to offer (well, SpaceX is already
offering) small orbital launch at about $10k/kg, give or take. And I
think they both have the potential to make good on these plans.

Pretty interesting times... it will be particularly fun watching the
nay-sayers argue that SS1 has no relevance to orbital spaceflight after
SpaceDev uses the funding and experience gained from SS1 to build
Streaker.

Note that SpaceDev's SS1 work is the most recent iteration of an
on-going propulsion technology development set of activities there,
using experience gained largely through earlier activities, and
funding largely from earlier sources. In particular, SpaceDev bought
up the remnants of Amroc some years ago (5 or 6?), providing them with
a knowledge base (and some hardware and people) to do with hybrid
propulsion; I believe that was done with investors' money. More
recently, they've gotten a series of military R&D contracts (from
AFRL, for example), to look into developing launch vehicles and upper
stages based on that technology.

It looks to me like their work on SS1 was part of that continuum of
development, albeit the first of their projects to take flight. As
"propulsion support" contractor, SpaceDev contributes some of the
components of the SS1 engine, I'm not clear on which ones. The
"forward bulkhead assembly" comes from eAc
(http://www.hybrids.com/news.htm). From
http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/faq.htm, looks like Scaled
Composites designed the oxidizer tank and fuel casing themselves, with
some fabrication done by Thiokol and AAE
(http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/arc...neUpdates.html).

For other SpaceDev propulsion projects, I think they're acting as
complete propulsion system designer/integrator.

- Kieran

I couldn't find any information about what they'd be using for the lower
stage.


A wild-ass guess from someone who's been following SpaceDev for a
while. Branson of Virgin is going to announce development of a
related project after the SS1 flight. Rumors are it will be a 10-12
seater SS1. I'm betting that that lower stage will be the rocket
pushing this thing.

(Kieran A. Carroll) wrote in message . com...

Note that SpaceDev's SS1 work is the most recent iteration of an
on-going propulsion technology development set of activities there,
using experience gained largely through earlier activities, and
funding largely from earlier sources. In particular, SpaceDev bought
up the remnants of Amroc some years ago (5 or 6?), providing them with
a knowledge base (and some hardware and people) to do with hybrid
propulsion; I believe that was done with investors' money. More
recently, they've gotten a series of military R&D contracts (from
AFRL, for example), to look into developing launch vehicles and upper
stages based on that technology.

It looks to me like their work on SS1 was part of that continuum of
development, albeit the first of their projects to take flight. As
"propulsion support" contractor, SpaceDev contributes some of the
components of the SS1 engine, I'm not clear on which ones. The
"forward bulkhead assembly" comes from eAc
(http://www.hybrids.com/news.htm). From
http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/faq.htm, looks like Scaled
Composites designed the oxidizer tank and fuel casing themselves, with
some fabrication done by Thiokol and AAE
(http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/arc...neUpdates.html).

For other SpaceDev propulsion projects, I think they're acting as
complete propulsion system designer/integrator.

I had a chance to talk to some friends at SpaceDev in the last couple of days,
resulting in updated information:

- SpaceDev did the overall design for the propulsion system.
- The propellant pouring was done there.
- The tanks itself was provided by their customer, but SpaceDev did much of
the design work for those.
- The propulsion system appears to have worked perfectly, with only normal
nozzle erosion seen. The motor shut down via timer, at the pre-planned time.
- They confirmed that Monday was not an X-prize attempt; notification for
such an attempt apparently has to be given 2 months in advance.

- Kieran A. Carroll
Dynacon

In article ,
Joe Strout wrote:
This was news to me, maybe it is to you too: SpaceDev is planning to
leverage its experience with the SS1 motor into a small orbital launcher
called "Streaker."

One note of caution: "being developed under contract with AFRL" doesn't
necessarily mean "we've got the money to build and fly it". That contract
could easily be for a little bit of technology R&D that will advance the
project only modestly. Press releases are often written very carefully --
and I'm not talking just about SpaceDev here -- to play up the good news
while never hinting at the roadblocks which remain.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

Joe Strout wrote:
Pretty interesting times... it will be particularly fun watching the
nay-sayers argue that SS1 has no relevance to orbital spaceflight after
SpaceDev uses the funding and experience gained from SS1 to build
Streaker.

Ah. Since I used to build and supply components installed on the USS
Nimitz, when I build a punt in my backyard I'm drawing on that
experience?

SpaceDev didn't build the SS1, Scaled did. Nor is SpaceDev building a
craft that in any way resembles SS1. You confuse, again, propoganda
with reality.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

(Derek Lyons) wrote:

SpaceDev didn't build the SS1, Scaled did. Nor is SpaceDev building a
craft that in any way resembles SS1. You confuse, again, propoganda
with reality.

Do you have a personal grudge against Scaled, Derek? You keep jumping on
chances to dismiss their accomplishments, both past and imminent. Now
you're calling the hybrid rocket engine successfully flown on SS1
"propaganda".

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but it ain't reality.

In article ,
(Alan Anderson) wrote:

(Derek Lyons) wrote:

SpaceDev didn't build the SS1, Scaled did. Nor is SpaceDev building a
craft that in any way resembles SS1. You confuse, again, propoganda
with reality.

Do you have a personal grudge against Scaled, Derek? You keep jumping on
chances to dismiss their accomplishments, both past and imminent. Now
you're calling the hybrid rocket engine successfully flown on SS1
"propaganda".

Actually, the apparent grudge above would be against SpaceDev, not
Scaled, though I think it's more of a general grudge against anyone
doing anything interesting in space.

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but it ain't reality.

No argument there.

In this case, of course SpaceDev didn't build SS1, they built SS1's
innovative engine, and they're planning to use a similar engine for
Streaker.

(Derek will no doubt claim that the engine isn't innovative, even though
nothing quite like it has ever flown before and the details of the fuel
formula are a trade secret held by SpaceDev.)

As someone else recently noted, there's nothing for it but to keep
plugging away and making progress despite the whining of the nay-sayers.

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: |
| http://www.macwebdir.com |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'

Joe Strout wrote:
Actually, the apparent grudge above would be against SpaceDev, not
Scaled, though I think it's more of a general grudge against anyone
doing anything interesting in space.

It's pretty sad when you cannot distinguish between criticism and 'a
grudge'. When somebody critiques NASA around here, he's welcomed with
open arms as a brother. When somebody gets a glazed look in their
eyes and drool on their keyboard over CATS, he's welcomed with open
arms as a brother.

When somebody tries to examine basic principles, and critique
progress, and question paths, and point out sticky spots and holes and
landmines, and actually tries to learn and think.. He gets branded a
nay-sayer and personal attacks for his trouble.

As someone else recently noted, there's nothing for it but to keep
plugging away and making progress despite the whining of the nay-sayers.

Heres some clues for you: Would George give a nay-sayer credit for a
new capsule concept? Would a nay-sayer even come up with such a
thing? Would a nay-sayer have tried multiple times to get a website
going about space access?

You need to grow the hell up and learn the difference between critique
and criticism and nay-saying.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.