Al-Jazeera: Egyptian 'top scientist' unearths comet-whacker's true mission

Damon Hill wrote:

We'll have to wait and see what comes of any investigations.
Was that string of impacts in South America ever dated?



Well, the whole impact scenario is now getting re-examined:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...meteorite.html
What makes the Iraq impact interesting is that something that sounds
very much like a meteorite impact shows up in The Book Of Revelations in
the Bible- Chapter 8:
"7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled
with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of
trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning
with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had
life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven,
burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the
rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of
the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because
they were made bitter."
Verse 8 could be argued to be a volcano or a large meteorite as in both
cases it's something that could be called a "great mountain burning with
fire" although in this case it seems to drop into the sea, as opposed to
erupting into it.
Verse 10 though plainly is a meteorite; as it's referred to as a "great
star".
What makes this interesting is that the meteor crater in Iraq was hidden
underwater until Saddam Hussein drained the area it was in for his war
on the Swamp Arabs (cut to scene of burnoosed man on camel riding in
airboat) so maybe there is some connection between it and water.
The other fun aspect of this is that early christian mythology spoke of
the rebel angels (cut to scene of Satan, Lucifer, and Lilith in their
red 1969 Dodge Charger - "General Chaos" - as they are pursued by Boss
Michael) hitting the ground with such force after their expulsion from
heaven that their bodies were driven deep into the ground, where their
gigantic inhuman bones still lie (i.e. fossils of prehistoric creatures.).
Hmmm...1/3rd of all life croaks? The end of the Cretaceous impact
event? Does the number "666" work out numerologicaly to be he name of
any species of dinosaur? Will the newly deciphered Egyptian documents*
reveal an alternative text in which the Mark Of The Beast is upon "Their
scaly foreheads, and in their clawed hands"?
As a current tie-in, H.G. Wells threw in a good deal of apocalyptic
biblical language into "The War of the Worlds"; which sort of plays out
with the flaming star Wormwood being the arrival of the Martians who
arise from their fiery pit to bring calamity to mankind. In fact, the
water being turned to blood was probably the inspiration for "The Red
Weed" clogging up England's rivers.

* In which the number of the beast is _616_ BTW:
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm

Pat

Damon Hill wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote in
:



Leonard C. Robinson wrote:
the Kaaba Stone is


the Kaaba Stone is said to have fallen to Earth from Heaven
(Mohammed, according to the orthodox Islamic authors, is
said to have removed the idols from the Kaaba in order to
purify it per the Koran). And, according to the newsreels,
another rock hit Arabia during the Depression (ca. 1933 AD
Gregorian reckoning).

The speculative Newsgroups would have a good POD re that
hit during this current upheaval in Londinium (the British
version of September 11, 2001).





I always wondered if the Kaaba stone and this event were
related:
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/ne...tml?xml=/news/
2001/11/04/wmet04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/04/ixhomef.ht
ml


Interesting, if that's really a meteor crater. Needs more
evidence to properly date it. I'd think anything that could
cause a crater of that diameter would have ended civilizations
outright, if not humanity.

The Chicxulub crater is much larger. Guestimates range from 90 miles to
110 miles in diameter. Recall the article Pat cites says the Iraq crater
is about 2 miles in diameter.

The Chicxulub crater is about 31400 square miles vs 12.6 square miles
for the Iraq crater. The Iraqi meteor was no dino-killer or human killer
for that matter.

Then again, it might have been
a comet-like impactor as Tunguska is thought to have been.
Exploded at enough altitude so it didn't toss that much
dust into the atmosphere, but did push some land around?

We'll have to wait and see what comes of any investigations.
Was that string of impacts in South America ever dated?

--Damon



--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Pat Flannery wrote:


Damon Hill wrote:

We'll have to wait and see what comes of any investigations.
Was that string of impacts in South America ever dated?



Well, the whole impact scenario is now getting re-examined:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...meteorite.html
What makes the Iraq impact interesting is that something that sounds
very much like a meteorite impact shows up in The Book Of Revelations in
the Bible- Chapter 8:
(snip what sounds like a description of a big meteorite impact from the
Bible)

University of Arizona planetary scientist John S. Lewis has made a
similar observation. (See his book _Rain of Iron and Ice_)

He notes that, until recently, more educated, "knowledgeable" people
didn't believe rocks could fall from the sky. So any eyewitness accounts
of meteorites would've been categorized as myths or tall tales.

Lewis has searched scripture and mythology and found stuff that sounds
like impact descriptions. I buy his argument that at least some of these
stories are based on events that actually happened.

Although as I understand it, Revelation is supposed to be visions of
what is to come rather than things John saw on earth in his time. So it
seems unlikely John was giving an account of a meteorite impact.


--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

wrote:
Maybe we can arrange for em to really get hit by a meteor. It'd be a
"sign".


Recently some planetary scientists opined the ability to move asteroids
would make future Tunguskas or Chicxulubs impossible. In my opinion,
this ability will make impacts far more likely.

Sadly, there are people like Osama and yourself who aren't concerned
about the loss of innocent life.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Hop David wrote:


wrote:
Maybe we can arrange for em to really get hit by a meteor. It'd be a
"sign".


Recently some planetary scientists opined the ability to move asteroids
would make future Tunguskas or Chicxulubs impossible. In my opinion,
this ability will make impacts far more likely.

I have to agree.


Sadly, there are people like Osama and yourself who aren't concerned
about the loss of innocent life.


And they won't be bothered by the fact that they can't target (never
mind precision target) these things at all

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 15:26:44 -0700, in a place far, far away, Hop
David made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:



wrote:
Maybe we can arrange for em to really get hit by a meteor. It'd be a
"sign".


Recently some planetary scientists opined the ability to move asteroids
would make future Tunguskas or Chicxulubs impossible. In my opinion,
this ability will make impacts far more likely.

Why would that be? Are you referring to people doing so deliberately?

Rand Simberg wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 15:26:44 -0700, in a place far, far away, Hop
David made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:



wrote:

Maybe we can arrange for em to really get hit by a meteor. It'd be a
"sign".


Recently some planetary scientists opined the ability to move asteroids
would make future Tunguskas or Chicxulubs impossible. In my opinion,
this ability will make impacts far more likely.


Why would that be? Are you referring to people doing so deliberately?

Yes.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:38:50 -0700, in a place far, far away, Hop
David made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Recently some planetary scientists opined the ability to move asteroids
would make future Tunguskas or Chicxulubs impossible. In my opinion,
this ability will make impacts far more likely.


Why would that be? Are you referring to people doing so deliberately?

Yes.

Well, I'm not sure what we should do about that. We will develop the
capability to do so. We'll simply have to learn to manage it, as we
have other powerful technologies. It will certainly enable us to
prevent it from occurring naturally, something we can't do now.

Jim Oberg wrote:

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=740

7/5/2005 Clip No. 740

Renowned Egyptian Geologist Zaghlul Al-Naggar: Deep Impact Spacecraft Had a
Military Goal and Negligible Scientific Value

Following is an excerpt from and interview with Egyptian geologist Dr.
Zaghlul Al-Naggar, which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on July 5, 2005.
Dr. Zaghlul Al-Naggar: The main goal of this operation (Deep Impact) is
military. America wants to prove to the world that it is capable of hitting
a target with a circumference of no more than six kilometers, hundreds of
millions of kilometers away.


Hmm. When all the likely threats are well within ballistic missile /
cruise missile / bomber range...?


The goal is first and foremost a military one,


Only in the sense that a cometary object might one day *be* a
threat....

And when a gazillion other space probes have to carry out similar
acts of accuracy that typically *don't* involve impacting something (How
often were we told of the narrow Apollo re-entry corridor when returning
from the Moon? And how is a remote *soft* landing less challenging?),
who cares?


and its scientific benefit is negligible. I doubt that the samples they
obtained could yield scientific results of any value.


Ah, but 10 years ago, when *nature* threw a comet at Jupiter, all
those space and ground based observing gear that looked to see what *it*
might throw up from the deeper atmosphere, that was nothing....

Next time someone sets off some explosives on Earth for geological
research, or oil exploration, that must be the cover for a military
project too, I guess.


--

You know what to remove, to reply....

Hop David wrote:


The Chicxulub crater is much larger. Guestimates range from 90 miles
to 110 miles in diameter. Recall the article Pat cites says the Iraq
crater is about 2 miles in diameter.

The Chicxulub crater is about 31400 square miles vs 12.6 square miles
for the Iraq crater. The Iraqi meteor was no dino-killer or human
killer for that matter.

This is a fun website that lets you study the effects of varius size
meteor, asteroid and comet impacts on both the local enviroment and the
Earth as a whole: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/
I worked out the data for a stony asteroid hitting the Earth at a
45degree angle that blows a two-mile-wide crater in sedimentry rock as
seen from 10 kilometers away:


Your Inputs:

Distance from Impact: 10.00 km = 6.21 miles
Projectile Diameter: 200.00 m = 656.00 ft = 0.12 miles
Projectile Density: 3000 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 17.00 km/s = 10.56 miles/s
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 2500 kg/m3
Target Type: Sedimentary Rock


Energy:

Energy before atmospheric entry: 1.82 x 1018 Joules = 4.34 x 102
MegaTons TNT
The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth
during the last 4 billion years is 1.2 x 104years


Atmospheric Entry:

The projectile begins to breakup at an altitude of 54000 meters =
177000 ft
The projectile reaches the ground in a broken condition. The mass of
projectile strikes the surface at velocity 14.8 km/s = 9.19 miles/s
The impact energy is 1.38 x 1018 Joules = 3.29 x 102MegaTons.
The broken projectile fragments strike the ground in an ellipse of
dimension 0.847 km by 0.599 km



Crater Dimensions:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#crater


Crater shape is normal in spite of atmospheric crushing; fragments
are not significantly dispersed.

Transient Crater
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterglos.html#transient
Diameter: 2.84 km = 1.76 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 1 km = 0.623 miles

Final Crater
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterglos.html#final
Diameter: 3.27 km = 2.03 miles
Final Crater Depth: 0.423 km = 0.262 miles

The crater formed is a complex crater
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterglos.html#complex.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 0.00867 km3 =
0.00208 miles3
Roughly half the melt remains in the crater


Thermal Radiation:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#thermal


At this impact velocity ( 15 km/s), little vaporization
occurs; no fireball is created, therefore, there is no thermal
radiation damage.


Seismic Effects:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#seismic


The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 2 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 6.3
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 10 km:

VII. Damage negligible in buildings of good design and
construction; slight to moderate in well-built ordinary
structures; considerable damage in poorly built or badly
designed structures; some chimneys broken.

VIII. Damage slight in specially designed structures;
considerable damage in ordinary substantial buildings with
partial collapse. Damage great in poorly built structures.
Fall of chimneys, factory stacks, columns, monuments,
walls. Heavy furniture overturned.


Ejecta:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#ejecta


The ejecta will arrive approximately 45.2 seconds after the impact.
Average Ejecta Thickness: 57.9 cm = 22.8 inches
Mean Fragment Diameter: 8.91 m = 29.2 ft


Air Blast:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#airblast


The air blast will arrive at approximately 30.3 seconds.
Peak Overpressu 315000 Pa = 3.15 bars = 44.8 psi
Max wind velocity: 386 m/s = 864 mph
Sound Intensity: 110 dB (May cause ear pain)
Damage Description:


Multistory wall-bearing buildings will collapse.

Wood frame buildings will almost completely collapse.

Multistory steel-framed office-type buildings will suffer
extreme frame distortion, incipient collapse.

Highway truss bridges will collapse.

Glass windows will shatter.

Cars and trucks will be overturned and displaced,
requiring major repairs.

Up to 90 percent of trees blown down; remainder stripped
of branches and leaves.


No, that doesn't sound survivable at 10 kilometers. Particularly the
thirty foot diameter rocks falling out of the sky and the supersonic
windspeed; let's back off to 50:


Seismic Effects:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#seismic


The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 10 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 6.3
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 50 km:

VII. Damage negligible in buildings of good design and
construction; slight to moderate in well-built ordinary
structures; considerable damage in poorly built or badly
designed structures; some chimneys broken.

VIII. Damage slight in specially designed structures;
considerable damage in ordinary substantial buildings with
partial collapse. Damage great in poorly built structures.
Fall of chimneys, factory stacks, columns, monuments, walls.
Heavy furniture overturned.



Ejecta:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#ejecta


The ejecta will arrive approximately 101 seconds after the impact.
At your position the ejecta arrives in scattered fragments
Average Ejecta Thickness: 4.63 mm = 0.182 inches
Mean Fragment Diameter: 12.5 cm = 4.93 inches



Air Blast:

What does this mean?
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Emarcus/craterexp.html#airblast


The air blast will arrive at approximately 152 seconds.
Peak Overpressu 14400 Pa = 0.144 bars = 2.04 psi
Max wind velocity: 31.9 m/s = 71.4 mph
Sound Intensity: 83 dB (Loud as heavy traffic)
Damage Description:


Glass windows will shatter.

Now that sounds survivable, provided that you don't get clonked with one
of those five inch diameter rocks falling out of the sky.
But you are still going to realise that something very odd has happened
in the neighborhood.

Pat