Silent night

On Nov 25, 1:09 pm, American wrote:
On Nov 25, 2:03 pm, BradGuth wrote:



On Nov 25, 10:29 am, American wrote:

On Nov 25, 10:08 am, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 24, 11:29 pm, Totorkon wrote:

On Nov 22, 11:37 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:

Totorkon wrote:
In 'seti is pointless' it was claimed that any 'local' radio would
have been detected. With our current capability even a planet as
radio bright as earth, at a distance of the 10 or 12 lys of Drake's
stars, would likely escape detection.

It seems likely that after little more than a century a civilization
would find radio broadcast inefficient, a MW is enough to power nearly
a thousand households. As powers of detection grow there would be
greater intrest in observing other worlds than communicating with
them, A 'here we are' transmission would be improbable.

The SETI is a small chance- BIG discovery endevor that can only be
justified as a piggyback project on instruments built to investigate
astronomical mysteries.

The big problem with SETI is - as you point out -that the assumption
that extraterrestrial civilizations to be detected are going to continue
to transmit radio frequency range signals over a period of several
hundreds or thousands of years, rather than almost immediately moving to
a better form of communication that doesn't suffer from speed-of-light
constraints.
That changes the whole Drake Equation/SETI formula for picking up
extraterrestrial civilizations, as we may be looking around for radio
signals... when all the other galactic civilizations communicate
instantaneously via dark matter and the collapsed dimensions, around a
couple of hundred years or so after coming up with radio.
In short, we are looking for smoke signals in a realm that has telegraph
poles running through it.

Pat- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually the formula would still yield silence even with the
antiquated EM spectrum. Any communication between star systems is
likely to be via the most narrow beams possible for the highest
efficiency.

Outside of the line of sight, civilizations carrying on cacophony of
communication might as well not exist.

Terrestrial communications doesn't go very far away from Earth.

From our Selene/moon, a conventional analog TV set with a reasonably
high gain antenna pointed at Earth as hosting a 100 KW analog VHF
class TV station tower, would not likely receive any viable signal of
"I Love Lucy", though partially because the 100 KW transmitter (ch11
199.25 MHz) is horizontally polarized for maximum surface range on
Earth (say 240 miles) or roughly 0.1% the distance from the moon.

However, various commercial weather and DoD S-Band radar should be
rather easily detected as unusual and unnatural signals from our
planet, and say starting as of 62 some odd years ago = 0.0000001% the
existence of our passive little solar system.

First Radar Detection of the Moon (1946)
http://www.infoage.org/stodola-2-1988.html

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would seem that any communication performed by ET's wouldn't use
conventional RF method in order to "signal" planet earth.

I'd have to agree with that.

Perhaps they
feel that if earthlings aren't sophisticated enough to have developed
any form of advanced transmission, therefore it's no use flooding
earth with the incredible bandwidths of information that we could
decipher almost instantaneously - IMO SOMEONE on earth may already be
using certain kinds of advanced transmission technologies, but WHY
would THEY be interested in telling anyone in the general public???

Quantum photon packets (FMP = frequency modulated photons) have nearly
unlimited throughput capability.

I tend to believe that advanced communication must go hand-in-hand
with a strangley similar kind of advanced propulsion technology, so
maybe that is why communication becomes "stuck" to the earth - maybe
it's better for the more dumber of humanity to remain here, at least
until a similar like earth gets discovered.

American

Perhaps the planetoids as moons of Sirius C are worth our attention,
although clearly Venus already indicates as having accommodated
advanced/intelligent other life as is.

Would you care to explore Venus?

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exploring VENUS means that (we) would probably also have the
capability to explore other things, like:

http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=4264

Imagine the potential returns, that is, if there were such things as
FTL cargo ships - orbital Venus/Earth trajectories are not out of the
question, since the inner asteroid belt of our own G2V sun contains
more of the metallic type asteroids, why not?

American

Having a POOF City as our outpost/gateway or oasis at Venus L2 would
certainly be a good advantage for going places other than Venus,
perhaps such as Sirius C.

~ BG

On Nov 25, 1:19 pm, American wrote:
On Nov 25, 4:09 pm, American wrote:



On Nov 25, 2:03 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 25, 10:29 am, American wrote:

On Nov 25, 10:08 am, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 24, 11:29 pm, Totorkon wrote:

On Nov 22, 11:37 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:

Totorkon wrote:
In 'seti is pointless' it was claimed that any 'local' radio would
have been detected. With our current capability even a planet as
radio bright as earth, at a distance of the 10 or 12 lys of Drake's
stars, would likely escape detection.

It seems likely that after little more than a century a civilization
would find radio broadcast inefficient, a MW is enough to power nearly
a thousand households. As powers of detection grow there would be
greater intrest in observing other worlds than communicating with
them, A 'here we are' transmission would be improbable.

The SETI is a small chance- BIG discovery endevor that can only be
justified as a piggyback project on instruments built to investigate
astronomical mysteries.

The big problem with SETI is - as you point out -that the assumption
that extraterrestrial civilizations to be detected are going to continue
to transmit radio frequency range signals over a period of several
hundreds or thousands of years, rather than almost immediately moving to
a better form of communication that doesn't suffer from speed-of-light
constraints.
That changes the whole Drake Equation/SETI formula for picking up
extraterrestrial civilizations, as we may be looking around for radio
signals... when all the other galactic civilizations communicate
instantaneously via dark matter and the collapsed dimensions, around a
couple of hundred years or so after coming up with radio.
In short, we are looking for smoke signals in a realm that has telegraph
poles running through it.

Pat- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually the formula would still yield silence even with the
antiquated EM spectrum. Any communication between star systems is
likely to be via the most narrow beams possible for the highest
efficiency.

Outside of the line of sight, civilizations carrying on cacophony of
communication might as well not exist.

Terrestrial communications doesn't go very far away from Earth.

From our Selene/moon, a conventional analog TV set with a reasonably
high gain antenna pointed at Earth as hosting a 100 KW analog VHF
class TV station tower, would not likely receive any viable signal of
"I Love Lucy", though partially because the 100 KW transmitter (ch11
199.25 MHz) is horizontally polarized for maximum surface range on
Earth (say 240 miles) or roughly 0.1% the distance from the moon.

However, various commercial weather and DoD S-Band radar should be
rather easily detected as unusual and unnatural signals from our
planet, and say starting as of 62 some odd years ago = 0.0000001% the
existence of our passive little solar system.

First Radar Detection of the Moon (1946)
http://www.infoage.org/stodola-2-1988.html

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would seem that any communication performed by ET's wouldn't use
conventional RF method in order to "signal" planet earth.

I'd have to agree with that.

Perhaps they
feel that if earthlings aren't sophisticated enough to have developed
any form of advanced transmission, therefore it's no use flooding
earth with the incredible bandwidths of information that we could
decipher almost instantaneously - IMO SOMEONE on earth may already be
using certain kinds of advanced transmission technologies, but WHY
would THEY be interested in telling anyone in the general public???

Quantum photon packets (FMP = frequency modulated photons) have nearly
unlimited throughput capability.

I tend to believe that advanced communication must go hand-in-hand
with a strangley similar kind of advanced propulsion technology, so
maybe that is why communication becomes "stuck" to the earth - maybe
it's better for the more dumber of humanity to remain here, at least
until a similar like earth gets discovered.

American

Perhaps the planetoids as moons of Sirius C are worth our attention,
although clearly Venus already indicates as having accommodated
advanced/intelligent other life as is.

Would you care to explore Venus?

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exploring VENUS means that (we) would probably also have the
capability to explore other things, like:

http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=4264

Imagine the potential returns, that is, if there were such things as
FTL cargo ships - orbital Venus/Earth trajectories are not out of the
question, since the inner asteroid belt of our own G2V sun contains
more of the metallic type asteroids, why not?

American- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The orbital speed of the earth around the sun is approx-
imately 18.5 miles per second (66,600 mph). The entire
solar system is also moving around the center of the
Milky Way at approximately 700,000 mph, and the
Milky Way itself is in orbit around the Magellanic
Clouds much faster, and so forth.

This hierarchy of velocity that increases from the moon,
ad infinitum, might just cause us humans to perceive,
that perhaps we humans are, part of the Creation that,
in our own time, made us creatures of light inside the
ergosphere of our very own event horizon, moving
through the heavens at the speed of consciousness,
as light beings ourselves.

Any other distraction for us should pale into insig-
nificance relative to our electromagnetic velocity,
which when propogating @ 2.5 times the magnetic field,
helically resonates a solition wave from light speed
to infinity throughout the universe, instantaneously,
causing a blue flash of Cerenkov radiation, as well
as a 'vanishing into hyperspace'. The solition waves
that cause these events hould also face somewhat of
a noisy interference of remotely subsuming solition
waves cosmologically, since there doesn't seem to
be much of a symmetry of local, galactic, or extra-
galactic star systems with common bore-holes or
voids that can be vectored, circumnavigation-wise.

Since the speed of light remains nearly 'constant'
at million parsec distances, an observer on the earth
observes the curvature of spacetime looking back
thousands, if not millions of years into the past,
along what we perceive to be a straight line.

I believe that an FTL space traveler would perceive
that the light from the red-shifted stars and
galaxies that are along the path of travel of his
spacecraft would become 'shift-normalized' into
'normal' spectrum frequencies, AS LONG AS the
spacecraft can maintain an FTL velocity.

American

FTL would certainly do the trick. However, in the mean time ?????

~ BG

On Nov 25, 12:25*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Totorkon wrote:
Actually the formula would still yield silence even with the
antiquated EM spectrum. *Any communication between star systems is
likely to be via the most narrow beams possible for the highest
efficiency.

That's not what SETI said though... in their search frequencies, Earth
was supposed to stick out like a sore thumb if you got anywhere near it
even in a wide area scan of the area in the sky it would be in seen from
another solar system looking at us from the expanding "radio bubble"
that exists around us since we started first transmitting large volume
radio and television signals back in the 1950s.
Given that constraint, any civilization within fifty light years of us
engaging in a SETI-like search should be able to pick us up with no
problem at all.

I have read that the navy's Maine VLF two megawatt transmitter is the
most powerful on earth.
It is claimed that the Allen array could pick up an arecibo
directional radar beam from 1000 lys. That omindirectional signal to
submarines would be too weak to detect at half a ly by said array.
Arecibo could pick it up out to about 8 lys.

Providing, of course, that they are searching in the radio frequencies
for us.
The whole thing falls apart if there is another, better, way of
communicating than means that are limited by SOL concerns, and no other
civilization is looking for something as crude as we use.
The concept that such a communication system need be aimed at a specific
target in the galaxy may be unnecessary (and indeed impossible) if it is
based on the theoretical collapsed dimensions where distance between any
atom in the universe and all others in it is effectively zero when
viewed from the superstring/membrane theory.
In that case you have something like the early days of Shortwave
radio... you just send the signals straight out at high power with no
directional aim and wherever they get received at is based on their
frequency and how good the detection equipment is.
Driving this analogy further, interactions between Einsteinian
space-time and the effects of the the signal sent via the collapsed
dimensions could increase or decrease its ability to be received at any
given point in the universe, rather like the way solar storms cause
fluky effects on shortwave signals being bounced off the ionosphere.
But, of course, it's way too soon to start speculating on such a thing,
as we have as yet such little real knowledge of what the new discoveries
and theories of physics that have emerged in the past two decades will
lead to in the end.
As the old "Einstein test" story to his grad students goes: "This year
the questions on the test are the same - but the answers are different."
I expect that to be going on for quite a few years to come.
Frankly, I hope that's the case... because a world where you have
everything figured out to a "T" is a pretty boring and unromantic place
to live your life in when it comes right down to it. :-)

Pat

I don't think that 'romance' is going to end any time soon. Still it
might be that if and when we do figure it out, it turns out to be
impossible?

That three mile dish beaming a MW 1Ghertz signal would cover an area
about 60B miles across at a star system 100 lys away. The signal
intensity would be about 10E-15 W/m2, a million times stronger than
the limit of arecibo's sensitivity.

Whether hyperspace or EMR targeted at someone else, we are just as
certain to miss the connection.

On Nov 25, 9:15*am, BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 24, 9:32 pm, Totorkon wrote:





On Nov 24, 5:56 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 21, 9:28 pm, Totorkon wrote:

It was claimed that in a targeted survey the 'phoenix' set of radio
dishes, including arecibo, would be able to pick up the carrier signal
of a gigawatt beacon at a distance of 200 lys.
By extrapolation, to pick up a megawatt signal, a common power level
for dtv transmission, at a distance of a hundred lys, would require an
area of nearly ten square miles... equal to the expanse of a 5GW SPS.

The 'defered' terrestrial planet finder telescope would be four times
the size of hubble and stars as far as 29 lys would be surveyed. *To
get a reliable spectrum of even the ozone of an earth twin at 100 lys
would require an awe inspiring 30m mirror.

These instruments would be required to detect a civilization or the
precursor oxygen atmosphere that might precede it by half a billion
years, for just the closest 10000 stars, a ten millionth of the
galaxy's population.

We can't know if the starry night is silent until we have bigger ears
and eyes.

We should be transmitting our SOS via laser packets, using our Selene/
moon L1 as our laser packet transmitting platform.

*~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't that be 'SOP' (.../---/.--.) as in 'Save Our Planet'?

I like it(SOP), and perhaps ETs might even get the drift of that
message and then wonder, why bother?

Even if we attract the attention of really bad ETs, how could that be
any worse off than what pathetic terrestrial options we have to pick
from?

*~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The answer here seems to be

** just DO it **

DO find earth-like planets that are the most habitable;

DO build FTL vehicles to move into the new land of milk and honey
BEFORE the inevitable happens on THIS planet (and it most certainly
WILL);

DO provide the best exit strategy before disaster strikes and the most
violent military and paramilitary forces are involved in the mass
extermination of the faithful few who still believe in a superior
being that created us (a GOD perchance?);

DO separate ourselves from the incessant madness that permeates our
culture in the banishing of our borders, language, and culture for the
express purpose of selling our country down the tubes;

-

We must learn to practice these kinds of things a whole lot better
before the inevitable happens.

A

On Nov 26, 10:55 am, American wrote:
On Nov 25, 9:15 am, BradGuth wrote:



On Nov 24, 9:32 pm, Totorkon wrote:

On Nov 24, 5:56 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 21, 9:28 pm, Totorkon wrote:

It was claimed that in a targeted survey the 'phoenix' set of radio
dishes, including arecibo, would be able to pick up the carrier signal
of a gigawatt beacon at a distance of 200 lys.
By extrapolation, to pick up a megawatt signal, a common power level
for dtv transmission, at a distance of a hundred lys, would require an
area of nearly ten square miles... equal to the expanse of a 5GW SPS.

The 'defered' terrestrial planet finder telescope would be four times
the size of hubble and stars as far as 29 lys would be surveyed. To
get a reliable spectrum of even the ozone of an earth twin at 100 lys
would require an awe inspiring 30m mirror.

These instruments would be required to detect a civilization or the
precursor oxygen atmosphere that might precede it by half a billion
years, for just the closest 10000 stars, a ten millionth of the
galaxy's population.

We can't know if the starry night is silent until we have bigger ears
and eyes.

We should be transmitting our SOS via laser packets, using our Selene/
moon L1 as our laser packet transmitting platform.

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't that be 'SOP' (.../---/.--.) as in 'Save Our Planet'?

I like it(SOP), and perhaps ETs might even get the drift of that
message and then wonder, why bother?

Even if we attract the attention of really bad ETs, how could that be
any worse off than what pathetic terrestrial options we have to pick
from?

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The answer here seems to be

** just DO it **

DO find earth-like planets that are the most habitable;

Already found Venus, though a touch on the geothermally toasty side,
it's entirely within our technological expertise as is, and it even
looks as though we wouldn't be the first.


DO build FTL vehicles to move into the new land of milk and honey
BEFORE the inevitable happens on THIS planet (and it most certainly
WILL);

DO provide the best exit strategy before disaster strikes and the most
violent military and paramilitary forces are involved in the mass
extermination of the faithful few who still believe in a superior
being that created us (a GOD perchance?);

DO separate ourselves from the incessant madness that permeates our
culture in the banishing of our borders, language, and culture for the
express purpose of selling our country down the tubes;

-

We must learn to practice these kinds of things a whole lot better
before the inevitable happens.

A

The inevitable of terrestrial carbon energy running low and otherwise
becoming spendy, plus having our SEC regulated investment markets and
countless jobs w/benefits as having kinda gone down the nearest
toilet. For many it's simply too little, too late, and the
consequences of countless thousands having since committed suicide or
having gone off the edge of Earth (past the point of no return so to
speak), as is.

When you have nothing more to lose, you tend to do strange and
sometimes fearless things, like flying large aircraft into tall
buildings or other highly populated locations.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Nov 26, 3:23*pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 26, 10:55 am, American wrote:





On Nov 25, 9:15 am, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 24, 9:32 pm, Totorkon wrote:

On Nov 24, 5:56 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 21, 9:28 pm, Totorkon wrote:

It was claimed that in a targeted survey the 'phoenix' set of radio
dishes, including arecibo, would be able to pick up the carrier signal
of a gigawatt beacon at a distance of 200 lys.
By extrapolation, to pick up a megawatt signal, a common power level
for dtv transmission, at a distance of a hundred lys, would require an
area of nearly ten square miles... equal to the expanse of a 5GW SPS.

The 'defered' terrestrial planet finder telescope would be four times
the size of hubble and stars as far as 29 lys would be surveyed.. *To
get a reliable spectrum of even the ozone of an earth twin at 100 lys
would require an awe inspiring 30m mirror.

These instruments would be required to detect a civilization or the
precursor oxygen atmosphere that might precede it by half a billion
years, for just the closest 10000 stars, a ten millionth of the
galaxy's population.

We can't know if the starry night is silent until we have bigger ears
and eyes.

We should be transmitting our SOS via laser packets, using our Selene/
moon L1 as our laser packet transmitting platform.

*~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't that be 'SOP' (.../---/.--.) as in 'Save Our Planet'?

I like it(SOP), and perhaps ETs might even get the drift of that
message and then wonder, why bother?

Even if we attract the attention of really bad ETs, how could that be
any worse off than what pathetic terrestrial options we have to pick
from?

*~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The answer here seems to be

** just DO it **

DO find earth-like planets that are the most habitable;

Already found Venus, though a touch on the geothermally toasty side,
it's entirely within our technological expertise as is, and it even
looks as though we wouldn't be the first.







DO build FTL vehicles to move into the new land of milk and honey
BEFORE the inevitable happens on THIS planet (and it most certainly
WILL);

DO provide the best exit strategy before disaster strikes and the most
violent military and paramilitary forces are involved in the mass
extermination of the faithful few who still believe in a superior
being that created us (a GOD perchance?);

DO separate ourselves from the incessant madness that permeates our
culture in the banishing of our borders, language, and culture for the
express purpose of selling our country down the tubes;

-

We must learn to practice these kinds of things a whole lot better
before the inevitable happens.

A

The inevitable of terrestrial carbon energy running low and otherwise
becoming spendy, plus having our SEC regulated investment markets and
countless jobs w/benefits as having kinda gone down the nearest
toilet. *For many it's simply too little, too late, and the
consequences of countless thousands having since committed suicide or
having gone off the edge of Earth (past the point of no return so to
speak), as is.

When you have nothing more to lose, you tend to do strange and
sometimes fearless things, like flying large aircraft into tall
buildings or other highly populated locations.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is this your intellectual response to what a massive
technological rush to the stars would become, because
it sounds to me like the typical Hegelistic philosophy
that new ideas will create their opposites.

However, Hegelianism, as it existed after the Civil War,
was not in conflict with the idea of free will. Free will
does not mean in this sense that ideas are not as
"emotional" today, as they are supposed to be "logical"
w.r.t. a revolution in scientific intuition.

There hasn't been an American revolution since
around 1860, and one would tend to believe that the
first native American philosophy that was propogated
following the Civil War - the philosophy that ideas
could be evaluated in terms of their consequences -
would be guided by a much greater force on their
individual consequences, since it has been mostly
unknown groups of individuals who have been deciding
the fate of millions of Americans, in spending hundreds
of billions of dollars in the bailout of industries that
have little or nothing to do with the smaller,
scientific entrepreneur.

Hasn't anyone noticed that most of the industries who
get "bailed out" are becoming more "collateral" to
military industrial type industries that are OUTSIDE of
there being a revolutionary transportation and energy
economy - an economy that has the potential of
going interstellar?

I'm tending to believe that there is a much larger scale
of cosmic weather than either Chauncy Wright, IMF, or
the energy cartels will care to admit to, for reasons that
the mass manipulators have decided to use, in order
to enslave all those who will question their motives, while
those of us who actually care to voice serious concern
over the monstrousity of capital, are presently being
flaunted by Treasury Secretary H. Paulson and the like,
as if no amount of capital will ever decide the nature of
reality of a U.S. bureaucrat, as one of the fattest,
greediest swine that this world has ever known.

Americans who don't recognize this symptom for what
it is will eventually lose their ability to ascertain what
will it is, that a free people must have, if they must lose
all of their free will to believe in "what it is" that defines
"the truth". Since it has become more recently "the truth"
that goes unnoticed, without the least bit of curiosity on
the part of the mass media, or even intuitive scientific
methodology among the truly informed, as no positive
hierarchy of outcomes based on sheer pragmatism will
put the defeatist to the test, in refusing to believe that
they must be force-fed to accept others' problems
becoming their own, in the victimology of the ignorant's
syndrome of circumstancial evidence, gone into the
witch hunt's blame machine.


American

On Nov 26, 4:53 pm, American wrote:
On Nov 26, 3:23 pm, BradGuth wrote:



On Nov 26, 10:55 am, American wrote:

On Nov 25, 9:15 am, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 24, 9:32 pm, Totorkon wrote:

On Nov 24, 5:56 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Nov 21, 9:28 pm, Totorkon wrote:

It was claimed that in a targeted survey the 'phoenix' set of radio
dishes, including arecibo, would be able to pick up the carrier signal
of a gigawatt beacon at a distance of 200 lys.
By extrapolation, to pick up a megawatt signal, a common power level
for dtv transmission, at a distance of a hundred lys, would require an
area of nearly ten square miles... equal to the expanse of a 5GW SPS.

The 'defered' terrestrial planet finder telescope would be four times
the size of hubble and stars as far as 29 lys would be surveyed. To
get a reliable spectrum of even the ozone of an earth twin at 100 lys
would require an awe inspiring 30m mirror.

These instruments would be required to detect a civilization or the
precursor oxygen atmosphere that might precede it by half a billion
years, for just the closest 10000 stars, a ten millionth of the
galaxy's population.

We can't know if the starry night is silent until we have bigger ears
and eyes.

We should be transmitting our SOS via laser packets, using our Selene/
moon L1 as our laser packet transmitting platform.

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't that be 'SOP' (.../---/.--.) as in 'Save Our Planet'?

I like it(SOP), and perhaps ETs might even get the drift of that
message and then wonder, why bother?

Even if we attract the attention of really bad ETs, how could that be
any worse off than what pathetic terrestrial options we have to pick
from?

~ BG- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The answer here seems to be

** just DO it **

DO find earth-like planets that are the most habitable;

Already found Venus, though a touch on the geothermally toasty side,
it's entirely within our technological expertise as is, and it even
looks as though we wouldn't be the first.

DO build FTL vehicles to move into the new land of milk and honey
BEFORE the inevitable happens on THIS planet (and it most certainly
WILL);

DO provide the best exit strategy before disaster strikes and the most
violent military and paramilitary forces are involved in the mass
extermination of the faithful few who still believe in a superior
being that created us (a GOD perchance?);

DO separate ourselves from the incessant madness that permeates our
culture in the banishing of our borders, language, and culture for the
express purpose of selling our country down the tubes;

-

We must learn to practice these kinds of things a whole lot better
before the inevitable happens.

A

The inevitable of terrestrial carbon energy running low and otherwise
becoming spendy, plus having our SEC regulated investment markets and
countless jobs w/benefits as having kinda gone down the nearest
toilet. For many it's simply too little, too late, and the
consequences of countless thousands having since committed suicide or
having gone off the edge of Earth (past the point of no return so to
speak), as is.

When you have nothing more to lose, you tend to do strange and
sometimes fearless things, like flying large aircraft into tall
buildings or other highly populated locations.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is this your intellectual response to what a massive
technological rush to the stars would become, because
it sounds to me like the typical Hegelistic philosophy
that new ideas will create their opposites.

However, Hegelianism, as it existed after the Civil War,
was not in conflict with the idea of free will. Free will
does not mean in this sense that ideas are not as
"emotional" today, as they are supposed to be "logical"
w.r.t. a revolution in scientific intuition.

There hasn't been an American revolution since
around 1860, and one would tend to believe that the
first native American philosophy that was propogated
following the Civil War - the philosophy that ideas
could be evaluated in terms of their consequences -
would be guided by a much greater force on their
individual consequences, since it has been mostly
unknown groups of individuals who have been deciding
the fate of millions of Americans, in spending hundreds
of billions of dollars in the bailout of industries that
have little or nothing to do with the smaller,
scientific entrepreneur.

Hasn't anyone noticed that most of the industries who
get "bailed out" are becoming more "collateral" to
military industrial type industries that are OUTSIDE of
there being a revolutionary transportation and energy
economy - an economy that has the potential of
going interstellar?

I'm tending to believe that there is a much larger scale
of cosmic weather than either Chauncy Wright, IMF, or
the energy cartels will care to admit to, for reasons that
the mass manipulators have decided to use, in order
to enslave all those who will question their motives, while
those of us who actually care to voice serious concern
over the monstrousity of capital, are presently being
flaunted by Treasury Secretary H. Paulson and the like,
as if no amount of capital will ever decide the nature of
reality of a U.S. bureaucrat, as one of the fattest,
greediest swine that this world has ever known.

Americans who don't recognize this symptom for what
it is will eventually lose their ability to ascertain what
will it is, that a free people must have, if they must lose
all of their free will to believe in "what it is" that defines
"the truth". Since it has become more recently "the truth"
that goes unnoticed, without the least bit of curiosity on
the part of the mass media, or even intuitive scientific
methodology among the truly informed, as no positive
hierarchy of outcomes based on sheer pragmatism will
put the defeatist to the test, in refusing to believe that
they must be force-fed to accept others' problems
becoming their own, in the victimology of the ignorant's
syndrome of circumstancial evidence, gone into the
witch hunt's blame machine.

American

Your FTL travel simply isn't in the cards we've been given.

Give us better cards and we'll play along with that one.

Terrestrial matters are clearly of the faith-based Zionist/Nazi kind,
and unfortunately they kinda control the vast bulk of media, global
banking and our public education system of leaving no kid behind, as
unsnookered and least of all without their having been dumbfounded
past the point of no return.

However, with BHO in charge, I do not believe their New World Order is
going to take hold, at least I sure as hell hope it doesn't, because
otherwise it'll make 9/11 look like a passive demo rehearsal.

~ BG