The Lost Cosmonauts book

Giovanni Abrate wrote:
Or vice-versa?

Unlikely. You might want to review a history of the Kettering Group and
determine when they started.

The fact that they were received at NASA in 1964 is also something the
Kettering group never achieved.

Sorry, but that only proves that you're in self-denial. Your accounts of the
circumstances leaves one with the impression that NASA did their due
diligence, determined that there was nothing worth pursuing, and quietly
dropped the whole matter. Attempts to claim that this was an "achievement"
are intellectually dishonest.

--
Dave Michelson

Giovanni Abrate wrote:

Elena is dead

So she _was_ a member of the family...is this mom, sis, or "Crazy Aunt
Elena"? I'm hoping this is sis, as she is listed as having been born in
1932, and that would make her a bit young to be mom unless old man
Judica-Cordiglia was robbing the cradle.
On the other hand, was this one of the brother's wives? Having a Chinese
mystic in the household is always useful, and if marrying one is the
only way to achieve that happy end, then more power to them... and what
woman wouldn't be impressed by someone who can say to her: "We are
Achille and Gian Battista Judica-Cordiglia... and _you're_ not."

and so is Giovanni Sr. His tudies of the Shroud lasted many
decades.

I thought the Pope got him involved in it, that was the implication you
gave when you said he was a respected forensic scientist.

The Shroud is amedieval fake, thanks to C14 dating we now know as
much.
As far as Sven Grahn is concerned, he was part of the Kettering group. When
I was in Sweden, minutes from his residence and invited him to meet me for
dinner, he refused.

If you'd studied those trigrams correctly, you would have realized you
had just run into 'ol number 44:
HEAVEN
WIND
"The Wind of Heaven will cause you much trouble and you will encounter
many difficulties. The wind will blow ever stronger and take all your
dreams away." (this interpretation thanks to
http://www.astrolim.com/eichi.htm)
....The wind of heaven in this case being radio signals, and the
ever-stronger wind being the Soviet policy of Glasnost in relation to
their space activities that occurred in during the 1990's.

Pity.

I find the fact that there are shroud fans and fortune tellers in the
family hilarious; if I'd been Sven, I would have taken you up on your
offer! Maybe he could show you the old Viking art of divination via
hurling Swedish meatballs into the air, and noting the pattern in which
they fall on the table; a variation on the old Roman method of
Pastamancy, knowledge of which was carried to Sweden by a lost
Italian-captained ship...one of the many secret transatlantic voyages
that preceded Columbus. :-)

Pat

I think you will have to read the book.
The relationship with the US Government was long lasting and complex.
Take care,
Giovanni

"Dave Michelson" wrote in message
news:iRBMb.72235$X%5.59332@pd7tw2no...
Sorry, but that only proves that you're in self-denial. Your accounts of
the
circumstances leaves one with the impression that NASA did their due
diligence, determined that there was nothing worth pursuing, and quietly
dropped the whole matter. --
Dave Michelson

Every once in a while, I can't resist a comment on the Lost Cosmonauts
mythology. It does not matter what transmissions were heard and who might have
manufactured them. All that matters is one simple fact. There were very few
orbit-capable boosters available to the Soviets, especially in the pre-Gagarin
period, and we know what happened to every one. End of story.
Matt Bille
)
OPINIONS IN ALL POSTS ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE AUTHOR

Giovanni Abrate wrote:

She was a sister. One member of the family who had no interest in science,
according to an affectionate description made by the brothers in their book.


Any other family members with colorful interests I should know about?
Mayhaps the one who was crushed by a Golem in 1957, or the one last seen
exiting the atmosphere over Turin in 1964 after the _real_ first
discovery of superconductor antigravity? I want to keep up the Google
search on these guys- I frankly don't know what I might find next. :-)

Pat

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:47:13 GMT, "Giovanni Abrate"
wrote:

The fact that they were received at NASA in 1964 is also something the
Kettering group never achieved.

....Yeah, but wasn't the reason for the reception being that they were
mistaken for a couple of Italian pastry chefs who were supposed to
give cullinary tips to the space food team?

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by Pat
Flannery on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:56:44 -0600,
which said:

But don't take my word for it that their claims about cosmonauts are
dubious; let somebody who knows monitoring of Soviet space telemetry
backwards and forwards have a peek at their claims- Sven Grahn, for
instance: http://www.users.wineasy.se/svengrah...re/TorreB.html

The deal-breaker for me has always been that they, and they alone, are
able to document their claims. I'm old enough to remember when, for
example, Jodrell Bank "stole" the Soviet images from the moon; it
strikes me as odd that no one else was able to do something similar
with these "lost cosmonauts."

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that it didn't happen; I *am* saying
that the totality of the evidence renders their claims to be not
credible.


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I respect your position.
If anything publication of the book in Italy will expose any of their claims
to public scrutiny.
I don't think they would have risked ridicule (for what?) and risk
compromising their professional reputation (which, in OItaly, is noteworthy
: see their website for details of their current occupations).Incidentally,
they mention Bochum's confirmation of many of their intercepts, including
some of the more disturbing ones. They also explain in the book why their
geographical location was more favorable than most for tracking soviet
satellites.
Giovanni

"John Beaderstadt" wrote in message
...
I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by Pat
Flannery on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:56:44 -0600,
which said:

The deal-breaker for me has always been that they, and they alone, are
able to document their claims. I'm old enough to remember when, for
example, Just to be clear, I'm not saying that it didn't happen; I *am*
saying
that the totality of the evidence renders their claims to be not
credible.

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
"Giovanni Abrate" on Wed, 14 Jan 2004 05:08:06
-0500, which said:

If anything publication of the book in Italy will expose any of their claims
to public scrutiny.
I don't think they would have risked ridicule (for what?) and risk
compromising their professional reputation...

Why not? A lot of other people have, do and will risk exposure of
totally bogus claims, made for whatever reason (usually ego or money).
Brian Dennehy, for example, tried to enhance his veteran's status by
claiming to have been in combat in Korea; the American Legion learned
he'd never been closer than Japan(?) -- in fairness, Dennehy wasn't
the only celebrity to make this kind of claim, but he's the only one I
remember, offhand..

Then there are Pons and Fleischman; remember tabletop cold fusion?
Both their careers are in the toilet after that little escapade.

Those are just two quick examples off the top of my head, of people
who have "risked their professional reputations" by lying or
perpetrating hoaxes. It's a risk that's gladly undertaken by every
plagiarist, hoaxer, huckster, shoplifter, etc.

Can you come up with a single reason why I should believe the JC Bros
wouldn't take such a risk? After all, compared with Pons and
Fleischman, their own claim is pretty obscure and unfalsifiable; the
absolute worst that would happen is that the book won't sell.



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Just the reputation of a respected patrician family.
In Italy, it still carries some weight.
They do have some very impressive (to italians) testimonials by well known
scientists and journalists who attended some of the intercepts.
Take care,
Giovanni

"John Beaderstadt" wrote in message
...
Why not? A lot of other people have, do and will risk exposure of
totally bogus claims, made for whatever reason (usually ego or money).
Can you come up with a single reason why I should believe the JC Bros
wouldn't take such a risk? After all, compared with Pons and
Fleischman, their own claim is pretty obscure and unfalsifiable; the
absolute worst that would happen is that the book won't sell.