Technical / Procedural Advice for Film

Thanks for the tip. I'll check them out.

(Aleta Jackson) wrote in message om...
(Joseph) wrote in message . com...
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

Joseph,
I would _highly_ recommend you try to get ahold of someone in CONTACT:
Cultures of the Imagination. We've done speculation about this sort of
thing for years, and have papers and documentation going back about 10
years or more. Web site: http://www.contact-conference.com/

There _are_ procedures. Some have been worked out by the Smithsonian
and State Department in cooperation with people from CONTACT and other
organizations.

Have fun and good luck with the screen play.
Aleta

In infinite wisdom Joseph answered:
Rich wrote

Joseph wrote:

What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

Either that, or shoot it. It'd be a great test for the killer
satellites I would think. :^/


Wouldnt it be extremely dangerous to attack andalien object when you
have absolutely no idea what it's capabilities are?

Perhaps, but I was talking about the military.

As for NASA, I think the aliens would die of old age long before
NASA's committes gave a recommendation. :^/

Certainly people
in the military would make the suggestion. But would the President go
through with it?Also how easy is it to attack something in orbit?

Good question. I've read of hunter-killer satellites, but I've no idea
how well they work. Hopefully better than the Patriot defending missles.

Rich

Matt Giwer wrote in message .com...
Joseph wrote:
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

As long as it is not very big (please no ID4 size ships) it is
unlikely to be detected approaching and entering orbit. Being first
seen by the shuttle is extraordinarily unlikely. It would have to pass
close enough to notice it and make out what it is. Passing in orbit
that close, probably no less than a couple miles just to be noticed
and then quick to the binoculars if any are on board to make up it is
odd is a very low probability. Then multiply by the fraction of the
year a shuttle is in orbit. A very dramatic scene is possible but it
was unlikely when SG-1 and Outer Limits did it. It won't get any more
likly for you.

This is what everyone is saying. But for dramatic purposes it has to
be noticed, preferably by people in the shuttle or space station.
(It's pretty hard to make a movie about radar blips.)

The object will be large enough, and WEIRD enough, that it will be
noticed and fairly quickly identified as non-terrestial.

So how big should I make it? Would making it highly reflecive increase
the chance it is seen?


Noticing something passing by a mile or so away would at most lead to
a report. Then a NASA search for new objects in orbit. That is going
to take a while. The chances of seeing it on a second pass in orbit,
appropriately, astronomical. So there is no way to get a decent guess
at its orbit. Without that there is no way to know where to look. We
have a one time anomaly remembered only by MUFON and such.

It is my understanding that SETI is only prepared to identify an
incoming signal as "not natural" and has no specific procedures in
place at all regarding what message to send out.

With SETI it has to pass through a search beam and be transmitting on
a frequency it is listening to and then is shows up as a wow event
when the tapes get processed some time later.

Which is fine, they probably don't need one. But what if an alien
object appeared? What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

It is unlikely anyone is going to be looking for it. It should
eventually show up on the junk tracking radar. It will be a decent
size and not explainable. For the life of me I don't know how to get a
picture of it unless a spy satellite can be retasked to get a
picture. We see the best NASA has when they follow the shuttle after
launch. I have never seen an image of more than a bright object at
twilight when it is in orbit. Neither of the space station which is
much larger.

Many countries can send rockets into orbit. I know there are even
amatures working on it. How difficult would it be to send a camera up
specifically to look at it?

Joseph

Joseph wrote:

Matt Giwer wrote in message .com...
Joseph wrote:
I'm an indie filmmaker working on a screenplay about a mysterious
alien object that suddenly appears in Earth orbit. In the story it is
first spotted by the space shuttle and then confirmed by radar and
telescopes on the ground.

I am trying to get a sense of the types of procedures people in the
space and SETI communities would go through in the first few minutes
and hours after discovering it.

As long as it is not very big (please no ID4 size ships) it is
unlikely to be detected approaching and entering orbit. Being first
seen by the shuttle is extraordinarily unlikely. It would have to pass
close enough to notice it and make out what it is. Passing in orbit
that close, probably no less than a couple miles just to be noticed
and then quick to the binoculars if any are on board to make up it is
odd is a very low probability. Then multiply by the fraction of the
year a shuttle is in orbit. A very dramatic scene is possible but it
was unlikely when SG-1 and Outer Limits did it. It won't get any more
likly for you.

This is what everyone is saying. But for dramatic purposes it has to
be noticed, preferably by people in the shuttle or space station.
(It's pretty hard to make a movie about radar blips.)

The object will be large enough, and WEIRD enough, that it will be
noticed and fairly quickly identified as non-terrestial.

So how big should I make it? Would making it highly reflecive increase
the chance it is seen?


Noticing something passing by a mile or so away would at most lead to
a report. Then a NASA search for new objects in orbit. That is going

Joseph

Hmmm, maybe the exact opposite?

How about it has exceptionally _low_ albedo?
Totally NON-reflective to all known wavelengths.

That way it could get a lot closer before being noticed
(a good property for something sneaking in)
and it could finally be noticed by a crew memmber as a "hole"
moving across the (background) stars.

When she sees it, and points it out to the rest of the crew
they can look for it with the Orbiter's radar.

But nothing shows up.

Even though they can ALL "see" it.

THEN they can report it to NASA as a real live phenomonon.


Would that help any?


Richard Lamb

(Joseph) wrote:

This is what everyone is saying. But for dramatic purposes it has to
be noticed, preferably by people in the shuttle or space station.
(It's pretty hard to make a movie about radar blips.)

Not when you have writers who can write, and actors who can act, and
directors who can direct.

I submit you might profitably watch 'The Enemy Below' and 'Run Silent,
Run Deep' for movies made mostly about fighting shadows never seen.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"triples" wrote:
The military is very poor about keeping any secrets anyway -

Except of course for all the ones they *have* kept.

as the movie "Contact" pointed out.

Relying on a movie for information is a dangerous business at best.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
(Joseph) wrote:

This is what everyone is saying. But for dramatic purposes it has to
be noticed, preferably by people in the shuttle or space station.
(It's pretty hard to make a movie about radar blips.)

Not when you have writers who can write, and actors who can act, and
directors who can direct.

I submit you might profitably watch 'The Enemy Below' and 'Run Silent,
Run Deep' for movies made mostly about fighting shadows never seen.

Or if you want a scifi one... the ST:TOS episode Balance of Terror.



D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"triples" wrote:
The military is very poor about keeping any secrets anyway -

Except of course for all the ones they *have* kept.


And which ones would those be? :-)


as the movie "Contact" pointed out.

Relying on a movie for information is a dangerous business at best.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:47:06 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Greg D.
Moore \(Strider\)" made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:


"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"triples" wrote:
The military is very poor about keeping any secrets anyway -

Except of course for all the ones they *have* kept.


And which ones would those be? :-)

We could tell you, but we'd have to kill you...

as the movie "Contact" pointed out.

Relying on a movie for information is a dangerous business at best.

Weren't you the guy who just recommended a couple movies, including
"Run Silent, Run Deep"?

In article ,
Joseph wrote:
Rich wrote
Joseph wrote:
What would people do? Form a committee and discuss it
for a year before contacting it?

Either that, or shoot it. It'd be a great test for the killer
satellites I would think. :^/

Wouldnt it be extremely dangerous to attack andalien object when you
have absolutely no idea what it's capabilities are? Certainly people
in the military would make the suggestion. But would the President go
through with it?Also how easy is it to attack something in orbit?

"Sir, there appears to be intelligent life on planet 3."

"Send in the emissaries and see if they're friendly."

ZAP

"Hmmm, looks like they're not friendly. Send in the sanitizers, then
find some more volunteers to train as emissaries."



Gary

--
Gary Heston

Contrary to popular opinion, _not_ everyone loves Raymond.