More Ares/Orion schedule slips

No argument there...escape from the loony bin to wind up in Federal Prison.
"OM" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:10:40 -0500, Brian Thorn
wrote:

We don't see you sending in a personal check in order to help fund the
Ares/Orion fiasco.

Every April 15th...

...Hopefully Guthball's a tax evader, so one day they'll throw him in
the slammer for the rest of his unnatural life.

OM

--

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"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...

Jeff Findley wrote:
Quote from article:

Constellation backers, such as Price, say such problems are
inevitable while designing NASA's first new rocket in 30
years.

Which leaves out a lot of rockets that NASA can or does use that _were_
developed in the last thirty years.
Delta IV, Pegasus, and Atlas V come immediately to mind (I'll politely
ignore Delta III). :-)

In particular, it seems NASA is ignoring the advances in upper stage
technology (i.e. Delta IV and Atlas V) in favor of developing its own upper
stage. This a bone of contention between the Direct supporters and Ares V
supporters.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

Jeff Findley wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
Jeff Findley wrote:
Quote from article:

Constellation backers, such as Price, say such problems are
inevitable while designing NASA's first new rocket in 30
years.
Which leaves out a lot of rockets that NASA can or does use that _were_
developed in the last thirty years.
Delta IV, Pegasus, and Atlas V come immediately to mind (I'll politely
ignore Delta III). :-)

In particular, it seems NASA is ignoring the advances in upper stage
technology (i.e. Delta IV and Atlas V) in favor of developing its own upper
stage. This a bone of contention between the Direct supporters and Ares V
supporters.

That's because the Ares I upper stage really isn't an upper stage at
all, it's a CORE STAGE reworked into a powerful upper stage. I would be
easy to redesign it, switch the oxygen and hydrogen tank positions,
stretch the tanks and convert that thing into a five meter CORE STAGE
for GROUND STARTED space shuttle main engines, and then all you have to
do is boost it with liquid fueled hydrocarbon boosters, which by my
count there exist three well established industry manufacturers.

The Ares I upper stage is derived from space shuttle technology, it can
be salvaged, and in the far future it could certainly be widened out.

http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkov..._Direction.doc

In article tatelephone,
Pat Flannery wrote:
Which leaves out a lot of rockets that NASA can or does use that _were_
developed in the last thirty years.

But those weren't designed *by*NASA*. NIH! (Not Invented Here)

Glen Overby

Allen Thomson wrote in news:242d7f10-66d6-4e42-97f3-
:

On Jun 4, 2:29*pm, "Jeff Findley" wrote:
The article's section on this says,
[...]
"It's like designing an entire rocket," said Larry Price, Lockheed
Martin's deputy Orion program manager. "We've got a three-stage rocket
going on here with electronics, batteries, control systems and all the
motors. So to try to do that in the space of [four] years is a pretty
challenging thing."

Other than a scale issue and steering, can't they just fish the Apollo
escape tower plans from the archives(*) and start from there ?


(*) - I know a lot was lost during the Apollo program so-called shutdown,
but still, a lot of info must be around.

"Jose Pina Coelho" wrote in message
...


Other than a scale issue and steering, can't they just fish the Apollo
escape tower plans from the archives(*) and start from there ?


I think you answered your own question. Other than the two major design
factors, it's exactly the same.


(*) - I know a lot was lost during the Apollo program so-called shutdown,
but still, a lot of info must be around.

That's an Urban Legend.




--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 20:36:46 -0400, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:

"Jose Pina Coelho" wrote in message
.. .


Other than a scale issue and steering, can't they just fish the Apollo
escape tower plans from the archives(*) and start from there ?


I think you answered your own question. Other than the two major design
factors, it's exactly the same.


(*) - I know a lot was lost during the Apollo program so-called shutdown,
but still, a lot of info must be around.

That's an Urban Legend.
Greg Moore

From what I recall hearing, what was lost was a lot of the production
tooling used in manufacturing. And then (as time went by), a lot of
the practical production knowledge was lost as employees moved
elsewhere, retired, died and so on. But the actual designs were not
lost, new production tools could always be built and new people could
gain experience making the stuff (as the original guys did the first
time around). Does that about sum it up?

On Jun 4, 7:51*pm, kT wrote:
OM wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:10:40 -0500, Brian Thorn
wrote:

We don't see you sending in a personal check in order to help fund the
Ares/Orion fiasco.
Every April 15th...

...Hopefully Guthball's a tax evader, so one day they'll throw him in
the slammer for the rest of his unnatural life.

Is that a Christian thing, wishing ill will on people?

Or is it just the usual slander?

It's perfectly typical of a Zionist Nazi. If they could, all folks
other than a very select few (plus those qualified as personal slaves
and minions) would be systematically exterminated (no good reason to
bother with keeping detailed records like their Nazi partners used to
do)

~ BG

"Harold Groot" wrote in message
...

From what I recall hearing, what was lost was a lot of the production
tooling used in manufacturing.

Not lost, but destroyed, re-used, etc. There's no point in keeping tons of
machinery around that you aren't going to use. Otherwise you have to pay
for maintenence, etc.


And then (as time went by), a lot of
the practical production knowledge was lost as employees moved
elsewhere, retired, died and so on.

Correct.

But the actual designs were not
lost, new production tools could always be built and new people could
gain experience making the stuff (as the original guys did the first
time around). Does that about sum it up?


Ayup.




--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

(*) - I know a lot was lost during the Apollo program so-called
shutdown,
but still, a lot of info must be around.

That's an Urban Legend.

Remember though that someone working for NASA got in touch with us
regarding how to find detailed info on the Apollo LES way back when
Constellation started.
The detailed data is probably still out there somewhere, it's just that
it's in some unindexed box sitting in a warehouse somewhere, and no one
will ever be able to find it.

Pat