Hiding in the Solar System.

Opposite side of the Sun, same obit as Earth.

I'm fairly certain this was a Sci-Fi topic at least once, although I
recall we were supposedly mutually unaware of each other.

"I.N. Galidakis" wrote:
This is obviously of only theoretical personal interest:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible
to us. Let's assume that this assumption (staying hidden from human sight and as
close to us) serves some unknown purpose of its evilness against humans.
Something like the Predators, for example.
....
=============
- Dale Gombert (SkySea at aol.com)
122.38W, 47.58N, W. Seattle, WA

SkySea wrote:

Opposite side of the Sun, same obit as Earth.

I'm fairly certain this was a Sci-Fi topic at least once, although I
recall we were supposedly mutually unaware of each other.


"I.N. Galidakis" wrote:
This is obviously of only theoretical personal interest:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible
to us. Let's assume that this assumption (staying hidden from human sight and as
close to us) serves some unknown purpose of its evilness against humans.
Something like the Predators, for example.

...
=============
- Dale Gombert (SkySea at aol.com)
122.38W, 47.58N, W. Seattle, WA

because of dynamics the two planets will have different velocities at
different times of the year. perigee is fast. apogee is slow. so at
those time the planet would peek out and be seen.

josephus

--
I go sailing in the Summer and
look at STARS in the Winter.
"Everybody is igernant, jist on differt subjects"
Will Rogers Jr.
"it aint what you know that gets you in trouble
it is what you know that aint so"
Josh Billings.

On 2007-09-22, SkySea wrote:

"I.N. Galidakis" wrote:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible

Opposite side of the Sun, same obit as Earth.

Impossible - there is already Cruithne orbiting through that region
of space in addition to Earth. If there was anything there Cruithne
would not be able to both catch up with and run away from the Earth
in the manner it does. You may be able to manage one or the other,
but without having done any simulations I suspect that even that
would be unstable.

--
Andrew Smallshaw

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:20:04 +0300, "I.N. Galidakis"
wrote:

The allowed range is the entire solar system (Sedna, Eris?), so please take
careful account of the dynamics of the entire system before answering. Locations
which eventually turn and face Earth are not acceptable, as they are surveyable
by human instruments.

I'd think that many moons of outer planets would work nicely. We can't
see these with sufficient detail from Earth to determine if somebody is
living on them. Most of what we know comes from the occasional space
probe passing by. Since you posit a high degree of technical
sophistication, I'm sure this hidden species could trivially alter the
data being sent back as required to keep themselves invisible.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

I.N. Galidakis wrote:
This is obviously of only theoretical personal interest:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible
to us. Let's assume that this assumption (staying hidden from human sight and as
close to us) serves some unknown purpose of its evilness against humans.
Something like the Predators, for example.

"social" means in order to survive as species it needs some sort of colony
(which obviously generates some "noise" as a byproduct of its existence), like
we do.

"very scientifically advanced" means advanced enough from our standpoint, but no
nonsense science, like cloaking Romulan/Klingon devices or Predator
"light-bending" thingies.

"carnal species" means the corresponding life form is of similar makeup to us,
subject to gravity, death, aging, etc.

"Human sight" means any observation means, such as radio and optical equipment,
spectrographs and in general any scientific device we use today.

I would be interested in knowing your opinions about optimal locations where
this species could be located.

The allowed range is the entire solar system (Sedna, Eris?), so please take
careful account of the dynamics of the entire system before answering. Locations
which eventually turn and face Earth are not acceptable, as they are surveyable
by human instruments.

In a sense this is a two-objective optimization problem, for objectives:
"Hidden" and "Close".

Many thanks in advance,

New Zealand.
--
Stupot http://insignity.blogspot.com

On Sep 23, 2:32 am, Stupot wrote:
I.N. Galidakis wrote:
This is obviously of only theoretical personal interest:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible
to us. Let's assume that this assumption (staying hidden from human sight and as
close to us) serves some unknown purpose of its evilness against humans.
Something like the Predators, for example.

"social" means in order to survive as species it needs some sort of colony
(which obviously generates some "noise" as a byproduct of its existence), like
we do.

"very scientifically advanced" means advanced enough from our standpoint, but no
nonsense science, like cloaking Romulan/Klingon devices or Predator
"light-bending" thingies.

"carnal species" means the corresponding life form is of similar makeup to us,
subject to gravity, death, aging, etc.

"Human sight" means any observation means, such as radio and optical equipment,
spectrographs and in general any scientific device we use today.

I would be interested in knowing your opinions about optimal locations where
this species could be located.

The allowed range is the entire solar system (Sedna, Eris?), so please take
careful account of the dynamics of the entire system before answering. Locations
which eventually turn and face Earth are not acceptable, as they are surveyable
by human instruments.

In a sense this is a two-objective optimization problem, for objectives:
"Hidden" and "Close".

Many thanks in advance,

New Zealand.

I like it, as New Zealand always was more than a bit weird, as in
being more advanced than seems necessary, but then China invented most
of everything under the sun. Go figure.
- Brad Guth -

The New York City Subway.

katrinaxx wrote:


The New York City Subway.


...with Osama Bin Ladin (oh, and Jimmy Hoffa too).

HTH ;-)


Shawn

On Sep 20, 11:20 am, "I.N. Galidakis" wrote:
This is obviously of only theoretical personal interest:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible
to us. Let's assume that this assumption (staying hidden from human sight and as
close to us) serves some unknown purpose of its evilness against humans.
Something like the Predators, for example.

"social" means in order to survive as species it needs some sort of colony
(which obviously generates some "noise" as a byproduct of its existence), like
we do.

"very scientifically advanced" means advanced enough from our standpoint, but no
nonsense science, like cloaking Romulan/Klingon devices or Predator
"light-bending" thingies.

"carnal species" means the corresponding life form is of similar makeup to us,
subject to gravity, death, aging, etc.

"Human sight" means any observation means, such as radio and optical equipment,
spectrographs and in general any scientific device we use today.

I would be interested in knowing your opinions about optimal locations where
this species could be located.

No contest, as it's Venus, and lo and behold I've got the proof as
well as the laws of physics along with the best available science as
to back it all up, and then some.

Our semi-hollow moon that's likely a bit salty from the inside out is
offering a secondary or outpost possibility, especially doable if you
are a sufficienly smart ET with interplanetary capability that could
easily remain as stealth or at least better than any Muslim WMD
invisible to our best instruments.
- Brad Guth -

On Sep 20, 11:20 am, "I.N. Galidakis" wrote:
This is obviously of only theoretical personal interest:

Assume a perfectly malevolent, social and very scientifically advanced carnal
species coexisting with us in the Solar system, but whose intent is to always
stay absolutely hidden from human sight, 24/24, 365/365 and as close as possible
to us. Let's assume that this assumption (staying hidden from human sight and as
close to us) serves some unknown purpose of its evilness against humans.
Something like the Predators, for example.

"social" means in order to survive as species it needs some sort of colony
(which obviously generates some "noise" as a byproduct of its existence), like
we do.

"very scientifically advanced" means advanced enough from our standpoint, but no
nonsense science, like cloaking Romulan/Klingon devices or Predator
"light-bending" thingies.

"carnal species" means the corresponding life form is of similar makeup to us,
subject to gravity, death, aging, etc.

"Human sight" means any observation means, such as radio and optical equipment,
spectrographs and in general any scientific device we use today.

I would be interested in knowing your opinions about optimal locations where
this species could be located.

The allowed range is the entire solar system (Sedna, Eris?), so please take
careful account of the dynamics of the entire system before answering. Locations
which eventually turn and face Earth are not acceptable, as they are surveyable
by human instruments.

In a sense this is a two-objective optimization problem, for objectives:
"Hidden" and "Close".

If ETs are out and about within our solar system, or just passing
through, as such there is no contest, as it's Venus, and lo and behold
I've got an official copy of the 36 radar look per pixel of
observationology proof, as well as the laws of physics along with the
best available science to back it all up, and then some.

Though perhaps next in line is our physically dark though semi-hollow
moon that's likely a bit salty from the inside out is offering a
secondary home sweet home away from ET's home, or at least nifty
outpost as a worthy possibility, especially doable if you are a
sufficienly smart ET with interplanetary capability that could easily
remain as stealth or at least better hidden than any Muslim WMD which
remains invisible to our best minds and instruments. After all, if we
can not manage to locate Osama bin Laden, what chance have we if ETs
obviously smarter than us are walking the terrestrial streets of
Earth?
- Brad Guth -