Global Warming is about giving your government more regulatory powerand your eventual enslavment.

On Oct 21, 2:55*pm, Quadibloc wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:38*am, "
wrote:

Exactly how was man causing global warming in the 1850ties? Millions
of cars running around?

As others have noted, 1850 was around the time of something called the
"Industrial Revolution", when the steam engine had just been invented,
and so people started burning coal to do many different things to a
much greater extent than before.

Of course, energy consumption then wasn't what it is now, so the
effect was weaker. While back then, people did have thermometers and
record the weather, things like tree rings and isotope ratios have
been used in modern studies of past climate as well, and this helps to
avoid errors due to any limitations on older means of measurement.

John Savard

Not many trees in the oceans--70% of the Earth's surface. And tree
rings can't give you 1 degree C precision anyway.

Deserts and icecaps are short on trees as well. Ever heard the term
"procrustean bed" ? You Greens give it new meaning.

Got a way for you to make an easy $500,000:

http://www.junkscience.com/

On Oct 21, 2:58*pm, Quadibloc wrote:
On Oct 21, 1:55*pm, Quadibloc wrote:



On Oct 21, 7:38*am, "
wrote:

Exactly how was man causing global warming in the 1850ties? Millions
of cars running around?

As others have noted, 1850 was around the time of something called the
"Industrial Revolution", when the steam engine had just been invented,
and so people started burning coal to do many different things to a
much greater extent than before.

Of course, energy consumption then wasn't what it is now, so the
effect was weaker. While back then, people did have thermometers and
record the weather, things like tree rings and isotope ratios have
been used in modern studies of past climate as well, and this helps to
avoid errors due to any limitations on older means of measurement.

Ah, here we a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

discusses the matter quite well. Apparently they don't need to use
stuff like tree rings except for times before 1850, so I wasn't quite
right.

John Savard

one small quote from your cite which you apparently didn't read:

"The uncertainty in annual measurements of the global average
temperature (95% range) is estimated to be ~0.05°C since 1950 and as
much as ~0.15°C in the earliest portions of the instrumental record.
The error in recent years is dominated by the incomplete coverage of
existing temperature records. Early records also have a substantial
uncertainty driven by systematic concerns over the accuracy of sea
surface temperature measurements.[23][24] Station densities are
highest in the northern hemisphere, providing more confidence in
climate trends in this region. Station densities are far lower in
other regions such as the tropics, northern Asia and the former Soviet
Union. This results in less confidence in the robustness of climate
trends in these areas. If a region with few stations includes a poor
quality station, the impact on global temperature would be greater
than in a grid with many weather stations.[25]"


So many global warming assumptions are forced as to make predictions
useless--it is a religion, not science.

And, again, I know you true believers don't like this focus but
"global warming" and "global warming is caused primarily by man-made
CO2" are two very different concepts--even you can't be that stupid.
We may well be in a natural cyclical warming cycle--it is the ultimate
arrogance to assume we can turn it off if we just spend enough money.

I agree we should go nuclear as our primary source of electricity--
just as Europe does-- but Greens don't like that option even given the
fact that the number of nuclear power plant fatalities in the US
is........zero. Wind doesn't blow evenly anywhere; solar doesn't work
well at night; ac doesn't store too well in a battery, etc, etc But
go ahead and make Boone Pickens richer as he plays off your fears. The
government can pay for it right? No cost to the taxpayer, right? Bet
you don't pay taxes but "Rolando" is not going to like Obama's
socialism very much.

In article ,
wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:38=A0am, "
wrote:

Exactly how was man causing global warming in the 1850ties? Millions
of cars running around?

Millions of homes buring coal in their furnaces. Thousands of power
plants and industrial processes using coal to heat and light and
provide energy.

Not light - that came some 50 years later. The very first uses of
coal burning were industrial uses - mostly processing ore from the
mines to create iron and other metals. BY todays standard the
coal burning back then produced very little Co2 - and of course
there was no noticeable human produced global warming in 1850.

Unca Rollo


--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/

On Oct 21, 3:44*pm, (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
In article ,

wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:38=A0am, "
wrote:

Exactly how was man causing global warming in the 1850ties? Millions
of cars running around?

Millions of homes buring coal in their furnaces. Thousands of power
plants and industrial processes using coal to heat and light and
provide energy.

Not light - that came some 50 years later. *The very first uses of
coal burning were industrial uses - mostly processing ore from the
mines to create iron and other metals. *BY todays standard the
coal burning back then produced very little Co2 - and of course
there was no noticeable human produced global warming in 1850.

Unca Rollo

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, *Grev Turegatan 40, *SE-114 38 Stockholm, *SWEDEN
e-mail: *pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se
WWW: * *http://stjarnhimlen.se/

Wow Paul! I dropped my lantern! Some common sense--is that allowed?

On Oct 21, 3:44*pm, (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
In article ,

wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:38=A0am, "
wrote:

Exactly how was man causing global warming in the 1850ties? Millions
of cars running around?

Millions of homes buring coal in their furnaces. Thousands of power
plants and industrial processes using coal to heat and light and
provide energy.

Not light - that came some 50 years later.

You're right, they did not use electricity to light their homes, but
they did light their homes with kerosine.

Rolando

On Oct 21, 3:15*pm, "M104gal aka Potty Mouth wrote:

Ah, so the Chinese are indeed coming after you; contrary to your
argument of a year ago, it seems electricity costs are not a
significant factor in your--or the Chinese--glass costs.

I know, consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, right? Or perhaps
you can't remember your past posts--check the archives.

The Chinese coming after me? hahahaha. How funny. They're actually
buying products from us. How about that, eh? Betcha I know what i'm
doing in this market better than you. Doesn't that just frost your
shorts!

The Chinese are coming after the wounded, not those who have a good
business going. They came after Celestron, who was just about on their
last legs and got rescued by Synta. Celestron, who got into several
cat fights with Meade. A real shame because the only winners were the
lawyers, and look where Meade is today. Stock which was at $50 not too
many years ago is now worth two dimes and a few pennies. Does that
indicate good management? Wonder which Chinese company will buy them
out at that price? A real shame if you ask me. On the other hand, the
RC makers are doing terriffic, even in this lousy market.

Unca Rollo

On Oct 21, 3:59*pm, wrote:
On Oct 21, 3:44*pm, (Paul Schlyter) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:38=A0am, "
wrote:

Exactly how was man causing global warming in the 1850ties? Millions
of cars running around?

Millions of homes buring coal in their furnaces. Thousands of power
plants and industrial processes using coal to heat and light and
provide energy.

Not light - that came some 50 years later.

You're right, they did not use electricity to light their homes, but
they did light their homes with kerosine.

Rolando

And the reason Greenland was farmland over 1,000 years ago? Ever
heard of the sunspot minimum that produced a mini-ice age in Europe in
the 1700's? You continually display your ignorance of warming and
cooling cycles that took place long before they could have been driven
by human activities. Human were around for the last major ice age that
covered most of what is now Europe with ice. Did they warm up the
planet with their campfires? Or just, possibly, are natural cycles at
work?

In article ,
BradGuth wrote:

Considering how interstellar dark matter is not nailed down, how
objectively proof-positive is our distance from Sirius, and thereby
interpreting as to our mutual closing rate of velocity?

Since the launch of the Hipparcos satellite, the trigonometric parallax
of Sirius can be measured with an accuracy of a fraction of a percent.
Perhaps you know that the trigonometric parallax yields the distance
directly, and is not sensitive to interstellar extinction.

The "mutual closing rate" (i.e. the radial velocity) is measured
through shifts in the wavelength of spectral lines, and that method too
is insensitive to interstellar extinction.

Anything else you'd like to know?




--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/

On Oct 21, 4:13*pm, "M104gal, aka Potty Mouth wrote:


And the reason Greenland was farmland over 1,000 years ago? *Ever
heard of the sunspot minimum that produced a mini-ice age in Europe in
the 1700's? You continually display your ignorance of warming and
cooling cycles that took place long before they could have been driven
by human activities. Human were around for the last major ice age that
covered most of what is now Europe with ice. Did they warm up the
planet with their campfires? Or just, possibly, are natural cycles at
work?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Beats me. I don't know enough about what causes what. I leave that up
to the scientists who study such things. You asked if people drove
cars in the 1800's, and I said no, they burned coal. That does not
make me an expert on global climate change. Nowadays we burn oil. Both
put CO2 into the atmosphere. I don't think anyone will argue that it
doesn't.

Unca Rollo

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:13:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

And the reason Greenland was farmland over 1,000 years ago? Ever
heard of the sunspot minimum that produced a mini-ice age in Europe in
the 1700's? You continually display your ignorance of warming and
cooling cycles that took place long before they could have been driven
by human activities.

I haven't seen a single person disagree that there are natural climate
cycles. Yet you bring the straw man up time and again.

BTW, it isn't established that a sunspot minimum "produced" the Little
Ice Age. It is widely believed, however, that a very small decrease in
solar output acted as a trigger to a positive feedback mechanism that
caused far more cooling than the loss of solar energy alone can explain.
This provides a strong warning: small changes can knock us from one
metastable state to another. A couple of degrees global temperature rise
may quickly cascade to much more. Every indication is that the Earth's
climate is not terribly stable.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com