NEWS - Bush May Announce Return To Moon At Kitty Hawk - Space Daily

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
A Proton/Ariane5/etc... size launcher can soft land around 6,000kg
of cargo on the surface at a reasonable cost for supply purposes.
Six tons?
Could you document that and/or provide numbers?

Checking on The Encylopedia, the last sample return mission massed
5,800kg's
and was launched using the Proton.

Almost certainly that is launch mass, not landed mass, let alone landed
*cargo* mass.

My fault, the lander mass at launch was 5,800kg's, which obviously gives a
payload to surface significantly lower, but still enough for a reasonable
supply run.

Dave

Rick DeNatale wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 08:44:43 -0600, Herb Schaltegger wrote:


In article t,
"Robert Allan Zeh" wrote:


Or an "interpretation" by the Supreme Court. The equal protection clause
sounds like a clear way to get around the Article II restriction.

Nope. That's not how the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment works.


Well, maybe Ahnold could somehow arrange for Austria to become the 51st
state. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona three years before it became a
state. His status as a "natural born citizen" was recognized
retroactively, although never tested in the courts.



Slightly different case. AZ was already a US terrority and Goldwater's
parents were US citizens, IIRC.

In article , Rick DeNatale wrote:

Well, maybe Ahnold could somehow arrange for Austria to become the 51st
state. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona three years before it became a
state. His status as a "natural born citizen" was recognized
retroactively, although never tested in the courts.

Arizona was a US territorial posession at the time, though. There may
have historically been a case of someone born outside the US or land
owned by the US running and it having been debated, but I'm not aware of
one.

[In a more recent example, McCain was born in Panama - in the Canal
Zone, that is. The first person to try and bring up Chester A. Arthur
gets an evil look ;-)]

As such, there's no precedent either explicitly or conventionally as to
what woud be done, to the best of my knowledge - although the details of
the legal status of Texans immediately post-statehood might be relevant.

--
-Andrew Gray

In article ,
Andrew Gray wrote:
In article , Rick DeNatale wrote:

Well, maybe Ahnold could somehow arrange for Austria to become the 51st
state. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona three years before it became a
state. His status as a "natural born citizen" was recognized
retroactively, although never tested in the courts.

Arizona was a US territorial posession at the time, though. There may
have historically been a case of someone born outside the US or land
owned by the US running and it having been debated, but I'm not aware of
one.

It seems to me there's a way to elect someone not born in the USA
to POTUS but it requires them to predate the USA. Ahnold misses out on that
by the better part of two hundred years.

Ah, now we know the real goal of Skynet: not to kill Sarah Conner
but to send Ahnold back far enough to qualify for POTUS.

--
It's amazing how the waterdrops form: a ball of water with an air bubble
inside it and inside of that one more bubble of water. It looks so beautiful
[...]. I realized something: the world is interesting for the man who can
be surprised. -Valentin Lebedev-

(Henry Spencer) writes:

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
We've got a killer cyborg as the governor of a state...and you're saying
_I'm_ getting delusional?

Don't get excited. It's not the first time that particular state has
elected a second-rate actor to be governor, after all.

(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)

With the US Constitution as it presently stands, that's true. I
actually heard on the news (but that doesn't mean that it HAS to be
true) that Orrin Hatch, of all people (meaning, I dislike most of his
stands, but think he has common sense) was talking about proposing an
amendment to remove the "natural born citizen" requirement (I'm not sure
if that's to allow Austrians or cyborgs).

Pat Flannery wrote:
[...]
To make that work, you are going to have to reduce the cost of getting
to the Moon and back by a couple orders of magnitude- even Lunar
diamonds would be hard pressed to make up their transport cost by carat
weight in their Earthside sale using present technology.

Pat

I understand that on the Canadian Shield, there are upwellings of
diamonds (as it were; I'll have to go through back issues of Sci Am or
somehting to find the proper term) that threaten the cost of South
African diamonds, since that would weaken the cartel's control of the
market.

/dps

"Hop David" wrote in message
...


Henry Spencer wrote:
In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:

Well the ice would come as a surprise for the crew at Arecibo, and none
was seen after Lunar Prospector crash dove into the area it was supposed
to be in. It could be there of course, but it's far from a sure thing.


Ice is uncertain, but hydrogen is not -- the neutron spectra are pretty
clear that there's plenty of slightly-buried hydrogen there. Precisely
what form it is in, they don't tell us, but ice seems likely.

Hydrogen could be from Ammonia as well as water ice. My guess is both.

That is in many ways better then pure water because it gives nitrogen as
well.

On 1 Nov 2003 18:48:34 GMT, Andrew Gray
wrote:

[In a more recent example, McCain was born in Panama - in the Canal
Zone, that is. The first person to try and bring up Chester A. Arthur
gets an evil look ;-)]

OK, I'll do it.

What's so important about Chester A. Arthur in this context?

John

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 14:37:34 -0500, James Nicoll wrote:

It seems to me there's a way to elect someone not born in the USA
to POTUS but it requires them to predate the USA. Ahnold misses out on that
by the better part of two hundred years.

But even that loophole requires that he would have to be a "Citizen of the
United States at the time that" the Constitution was adopted. Without
that starter loophole, no one would have been eligible for at least
thirty-five years after teh Constitution was ratified.

In article ,
Rick DeNatale wrote:

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 08:44:43 -0600, Herb Schaltegger wrote:

In article t,
"Robert Allan Zeh" wrote:

Or an "interpretation" by the Supreme Court. The equal protection clause
sounds like a clear way to get around the Article II restriction.

Nope. That's not how the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment works.

Well, maybe Ahnold could somehow arrange for Austria to become the 51st
state. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona three years before it became a
state. His status as a "natural born citizen" was recognized
retroactively, although never tested in the courts.

But Arizona WAS a U.S. territory and the citizenship of territorial-born
folks (and not to be cynical or anything - perish the thought! - but
especially for white folks) was never in much question.

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
"Heisenberg might have been here."
~ Anonymous