NEWS - Bush May Announce Return To Moon At Kitty Hawk - Space Daily

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:53:45 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Henry Spencer) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
We've got a killer cyborg as the governor of a state...and you're saying
_I'm_ getting delusional?

Don't get excited. It's not the first time that particular state has
elected a second-rate actor to be governor, after all.

(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)

Barring a constitutional amendment.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

OM wrote:

A: Her lips are moving.




There's a really sick "Camel's Hoof" joke in there somewhere....

Pat

In article ,
says...
Yes, but a lot of ground work was done before Glenn's flight. [...]
It's hard to say just when the US started working on potentially manned
spaceflight; but ISTR that little of value was done before the
Importation of Wernher von Braun, whenever that was. Under 17 years,
maximum.

That was just after World War II, so 17 years is about right.


More important, the quality of the senior management was extraordinary.

Indeed. And the Chinese could be implementing additional management
techniques impractical in the USA - but effective.

There in a risk that Forty-Three might want to defend against.

[must... resist... snide... smartass... Patriot Act... crack]
--
Kevin Willoughby oSpam

Imagine that, a FROG ON-OFF switch, hardly the work
for test pilots. -- Mike Collins

Henry Spencer wrote:

Don't get excited. It's not the first time that particular state has
elected a second-rate actor to be governor, after all.

(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)


Oh, I like that!

Pat

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:53:45 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Henry Spencer) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
We've got a killer cyborg as the governor of a state...and you're saying
_I'm_ getting delusional?

Don't get excited. It's not the first time that particular state has
elected a second-rate actor to be governor, after all.

(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)

Barring a constitutional amendment.

Or an "interpretation" by the Supreme Court. The equal protection clause
sounds like a clear way to get around the Article II restriction.

Robert

In article t,
"Robert Allan Zeh" wrote:

Or an "interpretation" by the Supreme Court. The equal protection clause
sounds like a clear way to get around the Article II restriction.

Nope. That's not how the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment works.

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
"Heisenberg might have been here."
~ Anonymous

"George William Herbert" wrote in message
...
Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
"George William Herbert" wrote:
Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
A Proton/Ariane5/etc... size launcher can soft land around 6,000kg
of cargo on the surface at a reasonable cost for supply purposes.

Six tons?

Could you document that and/or provide numbers?

I've been working on lunar missions for some time and get
payloads around three tons off a Proton, A5, D-IV etc.

Checking on The Encylopedia, the last sample return mission massed
5,800kg's
and was launched using the Proton. I didn't do the sums myself but a
collegue did them and was pretty sure you could manage things with a
Proton.

I could see if I kept the numbers if you want. They were sketchy though,
we
were looking at a proof of concept, and frankly, we couldn't make the
numbers add up even with 6 tonnes.

Just off the top of my head... that is the right mass for the
Proton payload delivered to Lunar Transfer Orbit, not landed mass.

If that 5,800 kilos includes the lunar orbit insertion and landing
fuel then sure. But there are several km/s worth of delta-V required
to go from LTO to lunar surface.

Fair point. I had forgotten that figure, leaving around 3 tonnes for the
remainder.

Even so, that's a reasonable supply payload for a base.

There are a couple of general approaches for how to do a modern lander
with an existing launcher.

One is to fit it into the LTO payload of an existing LV and have the
'payload' include the lander stage and all, and any required ascent
stage.

What I was proposing with Lunar Millennium was to launch a fully
fueled centaur-like stage to LEO, and use that for TLI, LOI,
and most of landing delta-V, but then drop that at a low
altitude above the lunar surface and do the final landing with
a minimal descent stage for the final few hundred meters / km.
Among other things, that minimizes the payload's propulsion
requirements for a one way mission, and for a two way mission
can efficiently let the lander and return / ascent vehicle be
the same vehicle, without having to stage on liftoff.

When I worked the numbers, and I did it a bunch in the mid-90s,
I consistently got around 3 tons down either way, but a lot
less components and in particular a lot less *new development*
components the LM way.

The NASA late 90's lunar reference study, as I recall used a modified 4th
stage to increase the payload to surface capability of the Proton, so you
could land the hab and basic equipment.

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)

Oh, I like that!

Not, mind you, that he wouldn't be an improvement on some of the clowns
who have occupied that office...
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

Robert Allan Zeh wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:53:45 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Henry Spencer) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:

We've got a killer cyborg as the governor of a state...and you're saying
_I'm_ getting delusional?

Don't get excited. It's not the first time that particular state has
elected a second-rate actor to be governor, after all.

(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)

Barring a constitutional amendment.


Or an "interpretation" by the Supreme Court. The equal protection clause
sounds like a clear way to get around the Article II restriction.

Robert



You're referring to this clause?

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any
law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty,
or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within
its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "


Nope. not even close.

1) Does not cover federal issues, only state.
2) The amendment only covers restrictions of existing laws and
rights, not the granting of additional rights.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 08:44:43 -0600, Herb Schaltegger wrote:

In article t,
"Robert Allan Zeh" wrote:

Or an "interpretation" by the Supreme Court. The equal protection clause
sounds like a clear way to get around the Article II restriction.

Nope. That's not how the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment works.

Well, maybe Ahnold could somehow arrange for Austria to become the 51st
state. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona three years before it became a
state. His status as a "natural born citizen" was recognized
retroactively, although never tested in the courts.