NEWS - Bush May Announce Return To Moon At Kitty Hawk - Space Daily

In article ,
Derek Lyons wrote:
A friend of mine is from Indiana and has long been perturbed by the
national reputation Quayle recieved. According to him, he always
seemed a sharp cookie, until exposed to the merciless glare of a
national media which *must* find something to hang a story on.

The story I heard, from people who had met him, is that he seemed to be
one of those unfortunate people who are intelligent and articulate in
private, but whose brains sometimes turn to mush when you shove
microphones in front of them. That doesn't have to happen very often for
someone to get a reputation for it, and then it's the only thing you'll
ever hear about them.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

In article ,
Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
A Proton/Ariane5/etc... size launcher can soft land around 6,000kg
of cargo on the surface at a reasonable cost for supply purposes.
Six tons?
Could you document that and/or provide numbers?

Checking on The Encylopedia, the last sample return mission massed 5,800kg's
and was launched using the Proton.

Almost certainly that is launch mass, not landed mass, let alone landed
*cargo* mass.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:18:47 GMT, Scott Lowther
wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote:

Rand Simberg wrote:

Pat, you're entering delusion territory now.



We've got a killer cyborg as the governor of a state...

Yes, and he's just been recalled and replaced with an actor.

True Lies

I'm surprised you didn't mention the killer cyborg junior Senator from
New York.

In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
We've got a killer cyborg as the governor of a state...and you're saying
_I'm_ getting delusional?

Don't get excited. It's not the first time that particular state has
elected a second-rate actor to be governor, after all.

(And fortunately, since Ahnold was not born in the US, he can't follow in
his predecessor's footsteps...)
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

Scott Hedrick wrote:

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...


The thing that's missing from all this is a rational reason to return to
the Moon- it's lifeless




Lifeless? I thought it was where the Fire Women hung out on Saturday nights.


No, they used to be on good terms with The Mare Maidens, and frequently
had slumber parties on the Moon; but then back in 1958 the unfortunate
incident of Bamboobel putting the live pterodactyl in Lunatrix's bed led
to a pillow fight in the crater Alphonsus that was so severe that the
rising feathers were mistaken for a volcanic eruption by the Soviet
astronomer Nikolay A. Kozyrev.
Since then there has been nothing but bad blood between the two planet's
women- which is a shame, as the Venusian volcanic calderas were just
perfect for cooking over during the Lunar/Venusian potluck get-togethers.
An attempted settlement to the squabble in 1993 went nowhere, when
Vulvator found only tampons arranged to spell out "Long blonde hair, and
short dark roots- even down there." on her arrival at the Lunar landing
field. Her response of defecating on the hot apple pie pie she had
brought as a peace offering, and scrawling "Lunatrix's face" next to it
pretty well sealed the hate pact between the two groups.

Pat

OM wrote:

...Actually, I thought that the majority of CT Nutters had agreed that
it was Bobby who nailed MM, not JFK. After all, JFK had Judith Exner
already, as well as one other intern, and with that bad back I doubt
he could have taken on MM even in her drugged out states.


OM



Well, Tempest Storm said he had put the moves on her once- and if you
can't trust a stripper's word, what can you trust?

Pat

Derek Lyons wrote:

A friend of mine is from Indiana and has long been perturbed by the
national reputation Quayle recieved. According to him, he always
seemed a sharp cookie, until exposed to the merciless glare of a
national media which *must* find something to hang a story on.



One of Quayle's teachers said this about him: "You look into those big
blue eyes, and it's like you're looking right out a window."

Pat

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:54:09 -0600, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Well, Tempest Storm said he had put the moves on her once- and if you
can't trust a stripper's word, what can you trust?

Q: How do you know when a dancer is lying?

A: Her lips are moving.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

Dr John Stockton wrote:

I carefully wrote "for the next Moon trip". The Chinese were certainly
beaten by the Americans of a generation and a half ago; but they may be
more interested in whether they can beat the present generation.

And that is a worthy goal. The Chinese "beat" the Portugese in building
ships capable of crossing oceans. But the Queng Ho didn't mean squat
after the court eunuchs burned the fleet. It was Christopher Columbus et
al who made it to the Americas.

Maybe the Chinese will switch that role in this new millenium.


--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
"George William Herbert" wrote:
Dave O'Neill dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com wrote:
A Proton/Ariane5/etc... size launcher can soft land around 6,000kg
of cargo on the surface at a reasonable cost for supply purposes.

Six tons?

Could you document that and/or provide numbers?

I've been working on lunar missions for some time and get
payloads around three tons off a Proton, A5, D-IV etc.

Checking on The Encylopedia, the last sample return mission massed 5,800kg's
and was launched using the Proton. I didn't do the sums myself but a
collegue did them and was pretty sure you could manage things with a Proton.

I could see if I kept the numbers if you want. They were sketchy though, we
were looking at a proof of concept, and frankly, we couldn't make the
numbers add up even with 6 tonnes.

Just off the top of my head... that is the right mass for the
Proton payload delivered to Lunar Transfer Orbit, not landed mass.

If that 5,800 kilos includes the lunar orbit insertion and landing
fuel then sure. But there are several km/s worth of delta-V required
to go from LTO to lunar surface.

There are a couple of general approaches for how to do a modern lander
with an existing launcher.

One is to fit it into the LTO payload of an existing LV and have the
'payload' include the lander stage and all, and any required ascent
stage.

What I was proposing with Lunar Millennium was to launch a fully
fueled centaur-like stage to LEO, and use that for TLI, LOI,
and most of landing delta-V, but then drop that at a low
altitude above the lunar surface and do the final landing with
a minimal descent stage for the final few hundred meters / km.
Among other things, that minimizes the payload's propulsion
requirements for a one way mission, and for a two way mission
can efficiently let the lander and return / ascent vehicle be
the same vehicle, without having to stage on liftoff.

When I worked the numbers, and I did it a bunch in the mid-90s,
I consistently got around 3 tons down either way, but a lot
less components and in particular a lot less *new development*
components the LM way.


-george william herbert